Welcome to Club SAITO !
I'm also interested in seeing if I can run the engine on 0% nitro and 8-10 % oil (Aerosave) to see if I can minimize the oil residue to wipe off at the end of the day.
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Saito FA 180 inverted??
Thanks
Rafeek
Last edited by rafeeki; 05-29-2014 at 06:29 PM.
Senior Member
Leave the carburetor/manifold location alone as twisting it to the side or down will drastically change the centerline relationship of the needle/fuel tank.
Most of the aircraft have the fuel tank in the top half of the fuselage rafeeki so as you roll the engine over on the firewall before you mount it you will see how the carby position changes in relation to the fuel tank,which is fixed of course.
Aerofinn i'll look up that aerosave oil.
Aerofinn i'll look up that aerosave oil.
Senior Member
Most of the aircraft have the fuel tank in the top half of the fuselage rafeeki so as you roll the engine over on the firewall before you mount it you will see how the carby position changes in relation to the fuel tank,which is fixed of course.
Aerofinn i'll look up that aerosave oil.
Aerofinn i'll look up that aerosave oil.
Since all I have ever flown is tail draggers I never had issues. YMMV
Last edited by SrTelemaster150; 05-30-2014 at 09:34 AM.
Aerofinn i just looked at the aerosave oil please let me know how that goes as long as you don't run nitro?
ps meant to say i've used skinny aluminium tube to run the crankcase vent line down and direct the goo away from the airframe,just sayin
ps meant to say i've used skinny aluminium tube to run the crankcase vent line down and direct the goo away from the airframe,just sayin
Last edited by Rudolph Hart; 05-30-2014 at 04:10 AM.
Just for a laugh i have always flown taildraggers,the mileage (ymmv) has changed dramatically depending on how much i love flying the plane.No maintainance equals interesting deadsticks.I think the theory about ideal tank height in relation to the carby on the saitos i've flown is as much about art as science.No two engines have been the same to fit and tune.To me the height difference between sideways and inverted is huge and i've noticed it most re initial start up and tuning between when the tank starts off full and when it is nearly empty.I tune the engines while the tank is half full,it's a good compromise.I appreciate that you have a great technical interest in the fine details and i like reading what you say.My interest is laid back sunday flying with your mates and if the deccy flew well today and the 82 was singing it's song there can't be much wrong in the world,well,at least not till the handbrake gets hold of me next time.
ps years back there was a huge debate about the ideal 12 gauge bore diameter,people arguing about microns and the fact that .729 (i think) was not cast in stone as ideal considering advances is ammunition design etcIf it's fun it's fun.
ps years back there was a huge debate about the ideal 12 gauge bore diameter,people arguing about microns and the fact that .729 (i think) was not cast in stone as ideal considering advances is ammunition design etcIf it's fun it's fun.
Question about tank positions. If the engine tends to stall coming off idle when fuel reaches about half tank, is it a position issue, or tuning? I have this problem with an upright OS 52
Since the Magnum is not playing nice in my Chipmunk, it is at a 45* angle, and it idles hard, and just doesn't seem to find itself at any throttle setting, I am considering swapping in the Saito 100 GK I have. I checked tank centerline, and it is right about the needle position. So unsure if its tank or just the carb needs more tuning on that one.
Since the Magnum is not playing nice in my Chipmunk, it is at a 45* angle, and it idles hard, and just doesn't seem to find itself at any throttle setting, I am considering swapping in the Saito 100 GK I have. I checked tank centerline, and it is right about the needle position. So unsure if its tank or just the carb needs more tuning on that one.
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Hey Y'all, I came back yesterday, my 370 mile trip from western Pa. usually takes 6 hrs and 15 minutes or so, yesterday it took 8.5 totally miserable hours. I rode through every kind of weather except for snow and hail. The Harley never missed a beat in all that rain and fog.
Pete, I always viewed the little Saito .30 as being powerful. Here it is turning a Bolly 10 x 5.5 at 10,192 rpm. Maybe strong is like beauty, it's in the eyes of the beholder.
Dan, we didn't get to do much exploring in Pa. due to rain, rain and more rain.
Pete, I always viewed the little Saito .30 as being powerful. Here it is turning a Bolly 10 x 5.5 at 10,192 rpm. Maybe strong is like beauty, it's in the eyes of the beholder.
Dan, we didn't get to do much exploring in Pa. due to rain, rain and more rain.
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AC, I tune my engines with the tank half full, I have a couple of pieces of wood I can place under the tank on the PSP approximating the tank position in the plane. I think you can see one of them here.
Last edited by Hobbsy; 05-30-2014 at 05:29 AM.
Whats up there Rafeek? I have a Saito 91 in a BT 13 ( LOOKS LIKE A T6 WITH OUT RETRACTS ) that is inverted and a O.S. 91 in a GP Lansair, the O.S. had to have a pump, the Saito did not! That is becouse the gas tank on the BT 13 is on the same line as the carb. The Lansair gas tank is up higher then the carb, that would made the enging drain the tank when just sitting and make in run ritch-lean in the air ( HARD TO KEEP ADJUSTED ) So I installes a pump on the O.S. 91 and that made it all go away. If you can drop the gas tank so it is on the same leavel as the carb, then is will run OK. If you can not drop the gas tank, may need to install a pump. Good Luck and keep out of the trees! LOL.....
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Which pump, a Perry pump will not cure a high tank mount, fuel flows through a Perry as if it weren't even there. A Cline or Ironbay regulator is the best cure, then your engine will run exactly the same from full tank to empty. Here is a Saito 2.20 wearing an Ironbay regulator.
Last edited by Hobbsy; 05-30-2014 at 06:13 AM.
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Just for a laugh i have always flown taildraggers,the mileage (ymmv) has changed dramatically depending on how much i love flying the plane.No maintainance equals interesting deadsticks.I think the theory about ideal tank height in relation to the carby on the saitos i've flown is as much about art as science.No two engines have been the same to fit and tune.To me the height difference between sideways and inverted is huge and i've noticed it most re initial start up and tuning between when the tank starts off full and when it is nearly empty.I tune the engines while the tank is half full,it's a good compromise.I appreciate that you have a great technical interest in the fine details and i like reading what you say.My interest is laid back sunday flying with your mates and if the deccy flew well today and the 82 was singing it's song there can't be much wrong in the world,well,at least not till the handbrake gets hold of me next time.
ps years back there was a huge debate about the ideal 12 gauge bore diameter,people arguing about microns and the fact that .729 (i think) was not cast in stone as ideal considering advances is ammunition design etcIf it's fun it's fun.
ps years back there was a huge debate about the ideal 12 gauge bore diameter,people arguing about microns and the fact that .729 (i think) was not cast in stone as ideal considering advances is ammunition design etcIf it's fun it's fun.
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Wow u guys are really helpful. I wasnt expecting so many responses in such a short time)
Let me explain a bit more. This was really an oversight on my part while installing the engine in this new 1/4 scale H9 Tiger Moth.
With the Saito inverted the carb is about 1" below the tank centerline. The intake manifold is now pointing up.
When it floods it spits the fuel up through the top.
It has started intermitantly but was unable to keep it running.
I am sure with the right set up it should work fine.
Giving it some further thought this is my conclusion which is open to input from anyone pl.
1. Best solution would be to lower the tank.... big job but not impossible.
2. If there is an extension piece to the manifold say an additional 1" that would raise the carb by that amount and put it in a more favorable height would that help? Does Saito have such fittings?
3. I would like to solve my problem without adding a regulator pump that will leave me with one thing less that could go wrong.
4. Turning the manifold sideways will help drain any fuel if flooding. I would have to deal with the carb/tank height relationship. Does that impare the engines operation?
Rambling....
2.
Let me explain a bit more. This was really an oversight on my part while installing the engine in this new 1/4 scale H9 Tiger Moth.
With the Saito inverted the carb is about 1" below the tank centerline. The intake manifold is now pointing up.
When it floods it spits the fuel up through the top.
It has started intermitantly but was unable to keep it running.
I am sure with the right set up it should work fine.
Giving it some further thought this is my conclusion which is open to input from anyone pl.
1. Best solution would be to lower the tank.... big job but not impossible.
2. If there is an extension piece to the manifold say an additional 1" that would raise the carb by that amount and put it in a more favorable height would that help? Does Saito have such fittings?
3. I would like to solve my problem without adding a regulator pump that will leave me with one thing less that could go wrong.
4. Turning the manifold sideways will help drain any fuel if flooding. I would have to deal with the carb/tank height relationship. Does that impare the engines operation?
Rambling....
2.
Changing the fuel tank position would be a last resort,it is a huge job and involves other compromises then.Because of the way the tigermoth cowl is shaped (to retain the scale look without poking the engine out the side of the cowl) you have to mount the engine inverted which almost always means the fuel tank is too high.
Dave's suggestion is the easiest way to avoid major surgery on the model,i've done it myself.The cline regulators i have are very light and make tank height irrelevent then,you can have any tank position you like.
ps perry pumps are a different thing altogether.It's only my experience but don't see anyone i know using them successfully.
Dave's suggestion is the easiest way to avoid major surgery on the model,i've done it myself.The cline regulators i have are very light and make tank height irrelevent then,you can have any tank position you like.
ps perry pumps are a different thing altogether.It's only my experience but don't see anyone i know using them successfully.
Senior Member
It's getting a bit dry.
Just had an explosion in the shed.PHNUT!! is a european word for jesus h christ,i had bits of plastic spinner and backplate rattling off the roof and a window.Don't know whether it backfired or not.I run the lsn in the middle and was checking transition.The engine had a brief over rev but the prop was still reasonably tight,not much plastic backplate left.You could wiggle the prop from side to side a bit.Fitted a new apc14x6.Turned the prop over and it sounded ok so hit it with a starter still no bad noises.Put some 10% in it sounds and runs sweet as.Flying it next monday it's australia day here then but our weather here is as crappy as yours sounds.
Senior Member
Back to the inverted Saito.
Now that I think of it, the 2 Applications where I inverted the engine had the engine mounted high on the firewall. The full scale PT-19 had an inverted Ranger engine so naturally the scale model has the crank centerline above the tank centerline.
The Night Hawk has the engine mounted inverted to the top of the cartridge board so again, the crank centerline is above the tank centerline.
That would tend to explain my lack of issues.
I can think of other instances where this same scenario would hold true. A Tiger Moth for instance or a SIG Rascal.
Now that I think of it, the 2 Applications where I inverted the engine had the engine mounted high on the firewall. The full scale PT-19 had an inverted Ranger engine so naturally the scale model has the crank centerline above the tank centerline.
The Night Hawk has the engine mounted inverted to the top of the cartridge board so again, the crank centerline is above the tank centerline.
That would tend to explain my lack of issues.
I can think of other instances where this same scenario would hold true. A Tiger Moth for instance or a SIG Rascal.
Hi Old Fart
The Aerosave oil is a fully synthetic MODERN thick oil the viscosity of which is 32,5 cSt @ 100°c. The Aerosave oil is also very tolerant to heat (much better than, say, Klotz original techniplate)+ has very effective additives to neutlalize the corrosion even at higher nitro percentages. Thus no need to use castor oil. So if your engines run on 0% nitro + 18-20 % castor oil in the fuel you should be fine at 0% nitro + 15% Aerosave. Some engines (such as YS) don't like high viscosity oils and in those applications Aerosave isn't a recommendable alternative. Aerosave does not mix with castor oil, either, which can be considered as a drawback.. Many has tried this, though, and have not had any issues but the Fuchs representative told me mixing castor prevents some of the Aerosave oil additives to do their work properly.
As a side not, Pe Reivers, a widely known engine expert said Aerosave is one of the best or maybe the best synthetic oil there is on the market. He's remark was if it mixed well with castor, then, it would be the best oil without any doubts!
P.S: hopefully I'm not starting any oil war: "to each what he likes most"
Last edited by AeroFinn; 05-31-2014 at 03:57 AM.
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Dan, is that a USAircore Knight Hawk you're speaking of, I had one in the early 90's and quite literally wore the paint of of it with an Enya .46MKII and then many hours with a SuperTigre Diesel conversion.
I don't get too fancy with the vent tubes, I just let er fly except when I have a TurboHeader pointed down, then I put a K&S tube on as an extension. I place a picture in a bit.
I gotta get my Sporty cleaned up for our big Ride In tomorrow. It has rain streaks all over it like an airliner.
If I can squeeze it in, I want to run the C&H equipped 1.50 also.
I don't get too fancy with the vent tubes, I just let er fly except when I have a TurboHeader pointed down, then I put a K&S tube on as an extension. I place a picture in a bit.
I gotta get my Sporty cleaned up for our big Ride In tomorrow. It has rain streaks all over it like an airliner.
If I can squeeze it in, I want to run the C&H equipped 1.50 also.
Last edited by Hobbsy; 05-31-2014 at 04:31 AM.