Welcome to Club SAITO !
04-22-2006, 06:52 AM
#2901
My Feedback: (102)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Colonial Beach, VA
Posts: 20,370
Likes: 0
Received 25 Likes
on
25 Posts
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Barry, it flies very well, a lot like my Tiger 60, the Tiger 60 has a Fox .74 Diesel on it and will do almost out of sight loops the 4 Star is heavier and not unlimited. I bet my Saito 100 would cure that.
04-22-2006, 08:03 AM
#2902
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Leetonia,
OH
Posts: 279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Bill is this the correct # [SAI8091B] for intake manifold, carburator o-ring set for the Saito 72? Is Horizon Hobby the best source for parts?
Doug
Doug
04-22-2006, 04:10 PM
#2904
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Lystrup, DENMARK
Posts: 114
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ORIGINAL: William Robison
Brucfe:
Depends on the airpalne.
A trainer with a long span and a small prop wont have much at all. It will have about 5" of span per inch of prop, and not a lot of power anyway.
A high performance plane like his Corsair, grossly overpowered like most of our models, might be as low as 2:1 in the span to prop ratio. Torque will always be a factor.
Bill.
Brucfe:
ORIGINAL: loughbd
There isn't enough torque to affect the roll rate that much.
There isn't enough torque to affect the roll rate that much.
A trainer with a long span and a small prop wont have much at all. It will have about 5" of span per inch of prop, and not a lot of power anyway.
A high performance plane like his Corsair, grossly overpowered like most of our models, might be as low as 2:1 in the span to prop ratio. Torque will always be a factor.
Bill.
04-22-2006, 04:19 PM
#2905
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Lystrup, DENMARK
Posts: 114
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
What exactly is the function of a Intake Velocity Stack ??
I have both a Saito 72 and a 100, with no fuel/etc. problems. But do I get more power out of it or ????
Another question to this great forum....
I am building a TVM Mustang P-51 (1400 mm size) for pylon racing. Until now I planned on putting in a Rossi R40 2-stoke (10x8 APC prop) with tuned pipe.
But will I get the same, or more speed if I took the Saito 72, with a tuned pipe and a high pitch propeller (ex. APC 11x9) ????
I have both a Saito 72 and a 100, with no fuel/etc. problems. But do I get more power out of it or ????
Another question to this great forum....
I am building a TVM Mustang P-51 (1400 mm size) for pylon racing. Until now I planned on putting in a Rossi R40 2-stoke (10x8 APC prop) with tuned pipe.
But will I get the same, or more speed if I took the Saito 72, with a tuned pipe and a high pitch propeller (ex. APC 11x9) ????
04-22-2006, 05:00 PM
#2906
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Mary Esther, Florida, FL
Posts: 20,205
Likes: 0
Received 14 Likes
on
13 Posts
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
dougwill:
Part number SAI8091B is correct for the carb set on the FA-80. The FA-72 is a short stroke version of the FA-80, about half the parts are identical on the two engines. That’s why yhou’ll find many of the 72 parts have an 80 part number.
Bruce:
The book is “Hopelessly outdated†meaning that very few of the current engines are in it. You will recall I said the techniques still apply. Maybe “Hopelessly†was a bit too strong, but if you check the book (I have a copy) you will find it was last revised in 1995. Many additions and changes to the Saito line in the past eleven years.
Christian:
Any prop that puts the same load on the engine will absorb the same amount of power, and sorry to say, that means the same amount of torque applied to the airframe. To decrease its effect on the plane you’d want to go to a larger diameter and lower pitch. Sounds strange, but the closer the plane gets to pitch sped of the prop the less power it’s taking, therefore the less applied torque to the plane. But you do have to be careful not to overspeed the engine.
An intake stack will not give you any greater peak power, but since it traps a lot of fuel that otherwise gets blown out it will give you the same power for a longer time, everything else being the same. Several paragraphs about stacks in Saito Notes, check the discussion there.
For a racing plane rpm is a main consideration, while the Saito will fly the plane the Rossi will turn almost twice as fast as the Saito, in this case I’d go with the Rossi. The Rossi with an 8†pitch at 16000 rpm will have a pitch speed of 121+ mph, on a good plane you’ll probably fly at 100 mph or a little more. To match this with a four stroke at 12000 rpm you’d have to spin an 11†pitch, and the diameter would be so small it might not pull the plane anywhere nearly as fast.
Bill.
Part number SAI8091B is correct for the carb set on the FA-80. The FA-72 is a short stroke version of the FA-80, about half the parts are identical on the two engines. That’s why yhou’ll find many of the 72 parts have an 80 part number.
Bruce:
The book is “Hopelessly outdated†meaning that very few of the current engines are in it. You will recall I said the techniques still apply. Maybe “Hopelessly†was a bit too strong, but if you check the book (I have a copy) you will find it was last revised in 1995. Many additions and changes to the Saito line in the past eleven years.
Christian:
Any prop that puts the same load on the engine will absorb the same amount of power, and sorry to say, that means the same amount of torque applied to the airframe. To decrease its effect on the plane you’d want to go to a larger diameter and lower pitch. Sounds strange, but the closer the plane gets to pitch sped of the prop the less power it’s taking, therefore the less applied torque to the plane. But you do have to be careful not to overspeed the engine.
An intake stack will not give you any greater peak power, but since it traps a lot of fuel that otherwise gets blown out it will give you the same power for a longer time, everything else being the same. Several paragraphs about stacks in Saito Notes, check the discussion there.
For a racing plane rpm is a main consideration, while the Saito will fly the plane the Rossi will turn almost twice as fast as the Saito, in this case I’d go with the Rossi. The Rossi with an 8†pitch at 16000 rpm will have a pitch speed of 121+ mph, on a good plane you’ll probably fly at 100 mph or a little more. To match this with a four stroke at 12000 rpm you’d have to spin an 11†pitch, and the diameter would be so small it might not pull the plane anywhere nearly as fast.
Bill.
04-22-2006, 05:20 PM
#2907
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Lystrup, DENMARK
Posts: 114
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ORIGINAL: William Robison
Christian:
Any prop that puts the same load on the engine will absorb the same amount of power, and sorry to say, that means the same amount of torque applied to the airframe. To decrease its effect on the plane you’d want to go to a larger diameter and lower pitch. Sounds strange, but the closer the plane gets to pitch sped of the prop the less power it’s taking, therefore the less applied torque to the plane. But you do have to be careful not to overspeed the engine.
>> I will try the MAS 12x6 at once...
An intake stack will not give you any greater peak power, but since it traps a lot of fuel that otherwise gets blown out it will give you the same power for a longer time, everything else being the same. Several paragraphs about stacks in Saito Notes, check the discussion there.
>> Thanks, I will consider buying for my Saito's
For a racing plane rpm is a main consideration, while the Saito will fly the plane the Rossi will turn almost twice as fast as the Saito, in this case I’d go with the Rossi. The Rossi with an 8†pitch at 16000 rpm will have a pitch speed of 121+ mph, on a good plane you’ll probably fly at 100 mph or a little more. To match this with a four stroke at 12000 rpm you’d have to spin an 11†pitch, and the diameter would be so small it might not pull the plane anywhere nearly as fast.
>> I though this was the answer, I will go for the Rossi on that pylon model...
Bill.
[/b]
Christian:
Any prop that puts the same load on the engine will absorb the same amount of power, and sorry to say, that means the same amount of torque applied to the airframe. To decrease its effect on the plane you’d want to go to a larger diameter and lower pitch. Sounds strange, but the closer the plane gets to pitch sped of the prop the less power it’s taking, therefore the less applied torque to the plane. But you do have to be careful not to overspeed the engine.
>> I will try the MAS 12x6 at once...
An intake stack will not give you any greater peak power, but since it traps a lot of fuel that otherwise gets blown out it will give you the same power for a longer time, everything else being the same. Several paragraphs about stacks in Saito Notes, check the discussion there.
>> Thanks, I will consider buying for my Saito's
For a racing plane rpm is a main consideration, while the Saito will fly the plane the Rossi will turn almost twice as fast as the Saito, in this case I’d go with the Rossi. The Rossi with an 8†pitch at 16000 rpm will have a pitch speed of 121+ mph, on a good plane you’ll probably fly at 100 mph or a little more. To match this with a four stroke at 12000 rpm you’d have to spin an 11†pitch, and the diameter would be so small it might not pull the plane anywhere nearly as fast.
>> I though this was the answer, I will go for the Rossi on that pylon model...
Bill.
[/b]
Many thanks BILL, you are my # 1 Saito guru
04-22-2006, 09:20 PM
#2909
Banned
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
I have a copy too. There are thousands of older Saitos out there. The book date is 1995. That makes it eleven years old. Saitos had been around 16 years when it was printed. That's 16 years of Saitos it covers and 11 years it doesn't, but even those eleven years the engines are the same or close to it. Remember the 65 is still in production and the book covers it.
Also lots of questions from guys buying older engines. The new ones have info on them. The book covers hard to find answers.
Also lots of questions from guys buying older engines. The new ones have info on them. The book covers hard to find answers.
04-23-2006, 10:08 PM
#2910
Senior Member
My Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Oshkosh, WI
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
I just bought my first SAITO, its a FA-91S, I plan on putting it in my TopFlite Spitfire.
What would a good prop be for this.. If possible a close to scale 4 blade?
What would a good prop be for this.. If possible a close to scale 4 blade?
04-23-2006, 10:28 PM
#2911
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Mary Esther, Florida, FL
Posts: 20,205
Likes: 0
Received 14 Likes
on
13 Posts
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
MoNKEyZQ8:
A four blade prop is gang a bit over the top, the disc area will either be very small with good pitch, or to get the greater disc area the pitch will be so low you wont have a lot of air speed. As many Spitfire marks ran three blade props, have you considered one? A 13x6 three blade should do fine, or maybe a 13x7 on your plane.
One more thing – four blade props are even more rare than three bladed ones, very small selection.
Master Air Screw, Zinger, and APC all have a fair to good selection in three blades, the Zingers are my favorites.
And I’ve put you in Club Saito as number 268.
Bill.
A four blade prop is gang a bit over the top, the disc area will either be very small with good pitch, or to get the greater disc area the pitch will be so low you wont have a lot of air speed. As many Spitfire marks ran three blade props, have you considered one? A 13x6 three blade should do fine, or maybe a 13x7 on your plane.
One more thing – four blade props are even more rare than three bladed ones, very small selection.
Master Air Screw, Zinger, and APC all have a fair to good selection in three blades, the Zingers are my favorites.
And I’ve put you in Club Saito as number 268.
Bill.
04-25-2006, 02:26 AM
#2913
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Mary Esther, Florida, FL
Posts: 20,205
Likes: 0
Received 14 Likes
on
13 Posts
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Christian:
Copy of a post I made in the Clubhouse:
Many posts were lost.
Bill.
Copy of a post I made in the Clubhouse:
All:
Many of you already know, but I'm sure a lot of you do not. Monday evening, April 24, 2006, in the course of an update the entire RCU forum database was corrupted. The restoration has lost a lot of posts made on Monday.
The effect? If you try to use an emailed link to go to a post you probably will find it does not work. The post the link points to is one that was lost. Just go to the forums list and work your way back in. As more posts are made things will return to normal.
We should all be thankful that this type of thing hasn't happened before.
Thanks Marc, for getting the system back up.
Many of you already know, but I'm sure a lot of you do not. Monday evening, April 24, 2006, in the course of an update the entire RCU forum database was corrupted. The restoration has lost a lot of posts made on Monday.
The effect? If you try to use an emailed link to go to a post you probably will find it does not work. The post the link points to is one that was lost. Just go to the forums list and work your way back in. As more posts are made things will return to normal.
We should all be thankful that this type of thing hasn't happened before.
Thanks Marc, for getting the system back up.
Bill.
04-25-2006, 12:10 PM
#2914
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
I now have two Saito engines so can I join the club? I just bought a used Funtana 90 with a 150 mounted on it's side. I also have an FA100 in the box for a P40E Warbird. I took the Funtana out to the field the first time yesterday and with the help of a couple of the more knowledgeable guys, we got it running and took it for it's (my) maiden. I left the cowl off for this flight and the crankcase vent tube was just hanging. I had oil everywhere, what a mess. I did go thru some of the 118 pages of posts and found some great information but have a couple questions. They have probably been answered somewhere but I don't have the 2-3 hours to go thru every page for now. I will eventually.
My questions are: Is all this oil normal? We put in a 20/20 blend that is called a YS blend. We used that rather than my 15% Nitro CoolPower because he said 20/20 was better. At the LHS yesterday, I saw mostly 15% blends. Powermaster has a 20/20 blend that is all synthetic but it is about $8 more per gallon. Bill Robinson has recommended Omega 15%. Is the CoolPower also ok? It is recommended for 4 stokers. Also, CoolPower says do not use after run oil since there is plenty of lubrication in the fuel blend. What do you think of that statement??
I guess that is about all for now. I am fairly new to the hobby and have a lot to learn and RCU is a great place to ask.
FlyForFun
My questions are: Is all this oil normal? We put in a 20/20 blend that is called a YS blend. We used that rather than my 15% Nitro CoolPower because he said 20/20 was better. At the LHS yesterday, I saw mostly 15% blends. Powermaster has a 20/20 blend that is all synthetic but it is about $8 more per gallon. Bill Robinson has recommended Omega 15%. Is the CoolPower also ok? It is recommended for 4 stokers. Also, CoolPower says do not use after run oil since there is plenty of lubrication in the fuel blend. What do you think of that statement??
I guess that is about all for now. I am fairly new to the hobby and have a lot to learn and RCU is a great place to ask.
FlyForFun
04-25-2006, 02:05 PM
#2915
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Mary Esther, Florida, FL
Posts: 20,205
Likes: 0
Received 14 Likes
on
13 Posts
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
davebart:
Can you join Club Saito? You not only can, you may. I’ve assigned 269 as your number.
All that oil on the airplane? Two things to start. First, while 20% oil is in “The Book,†17-18% is more than enough. In fact, the nature of a four stroke engine is such that once the oil level is established in the crank case going down to 10% would probably be OK. I am not recommending you try it, might be expensive. Just as an example of low oil, Technopower says use a MAXIMUM of 5% oil after break in.
The second thing. Does your engine have an intake stack? A lot of the oil could be back spray from the carb, the stack will decrease this, if used with a Bru-Line fine mesh air filter it will be eliminated. Trapping the fuel that is otherwise lost will also increase your flight time on a given amount of fuel.
Now. Is the YS 20/20 fuel “Better†than Omega 15%? Up to you. You will get a small increase in power with the 20% nitro, at the same time you’ll also get an increase in the oil on the plane along with higher fuel consumption. To me the extra power is not enough to justify the higher price, less mess and better fuel economy are the frosting on the cake.
And you don’t want to spend a couple hours reading through the thread? Well, for lazy people like you (and me) I have distilled the essence of the thread into what I call Saito Notes, the notes are not limited to this thread though. It is a compendium of hints, comments, techniques, and procedures I’ve posted over the last few years. Fourteen pages now. If you’d like a copy send me your email address (by PM or email only, don’t post in open forum) and I’ll send a copy.
This offer of Saito Notes is open to all who would like a copy, and since it is subject to constant revision anyone who has an older copy is welcome to ask for the latest. Just remember, don’t post your email in the open please. Spammers love it when you do.
Bill.
Can you join Club Saito? You not only can, you may. I’ve assigned 269 as your number.
All that oil on the airplane? Two things to start. First, while 20% oil is in “The Book,†17-18% is more than enough. In fact, the nature of a four stroke engine is such that once the oil level is established in the crank case going down to 10% would probably be OK. I am not recommending you try it, might be expensive. Just as an example of low oil, Technopower says use a MAXIMUM of 5% oil after break in.
The second thing. Does your engine have an intake stack? A lot of the oil could be back spray from the carb, the stack will decrease this, if used with a Bru-Line fine mesh air filter it will be eliminated. Trapping the fuel that is otherwise lost will also increase your flight time on a given amount of fuel.
Now. Is the YS 20/20 fuel “Better†than Omega 15%? Up to you. You will get a small increase in power with the 20% nitro, at the same time you’ll also get an increase in the oil on the plane along with higher fuel consumption. To me the extra power is not enough to justify the higher price, less mess and better fuel economy are the frosting on the cake.
And you don’t want to spend a couple hours reading through the thread? Well, for lazy people like you (and me) I have distilled the essence of the thread into what I call Saito Notes, the notes are not limited to this thread though. It is a compendium of hints, comments, techniques, and procedures I’ve posted over the last few years. Fourteen pages now. If you’d like a copy send me your email address (by PM or email only, don’t post in open forum) and I’ll send a copy.
This offer of Saito Notes is open to all who would like a copy, and since it is subject to constant revision anyone who has an older copy is welcome to ask for the latest. Just remember, don’t post your email in the open please. Spammers love it when you do.
Bill.
04-25-2006, 02:10 PM
#2916
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Mary Esther, Florida, FL
Posts: 20,205
Likes: 0
Received 14 Likes
on
13 Posts
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
davebart:
One more thing - Forgot to say that castor oil is absolutely necessary for decreasing cam shaft wear in a four stroke engine. Also, when the fuel blender says after run oil is not needed, ask the fuel blender if he's going to pay for new bearings.
Omega fuel has a castor oil blend for lubrication. It's all you need.
Get a quart of Dexron automatic transmission oil. Inexpensive. Give tour engine a healthy slug when you're finished flying for the day. Just about the cheapest insurance you an buy.
Bill.
One more thing - Forgot to say that castor oil is absolutely necessary for decreasing cam shaft wear in a four stroke engine. Also, when the fuel blender says after run oil is not needed, ask the fuel blender if he's going to pay for new bearings.
Omega fuel has a castor oil blend for lubrication. It's all you need.
Get a quart of Dexron automatic transmission oil. Inexpensive. Give tour engine a healthy slug when you're finished flying for the day. Just about the cheapest insurance you an buy.
Bill.
04-25-2006, 08:18 PM
#2917
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
fourteen pages? heck ive got 48 pages of them(made the letters bigger so i could read easier)
Bill, broke in my 180 today and as it should be it was a mess, but one thing concerned me, although i had oil running out the exhaust (and it was running good for break in) i had almost no oil running out the vent tube, a lot of blowby but not much oil. what ya think? i was factory out on the low(4.5) and 5 out on the high.
thanks Gary!
Bill, broke in my 180 today and as it should be it was a mess, but one thing concerned me, although i had oil running out the exhaust (and it was running good for break in) i had almost no oil running out the vent tube, a lot of blowby but not much oil. what ya think? i was factory out on the low(4.5) and 5 out on the high.
thanks Gary!
04-25-2006, 08:27 PM
#2918
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Mary Esther, Florida, FL
Posts: 20,205
Likes: 0
Received 14 Likes
on
13 Posts
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Gary:
If it weren't oiling you would already know it. If you're worried, loose4n the intake and swing it out of the way, tilt the engine nose down and pop the back plate. Probably find at least 1/4 inch of oil in the bottom.
Bill.
If it weren't oiling you would already know it. If you're worried, loose4n the intake and swing it out of the way, tilt the engine nose down and pop the back plate. Probably find at least 1/4 inch of oil in the bottom.
Bill.
04-25-2006, 09:03 PM
#2919
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Cedar Park, TX
Posts: 725
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
I just got my first Saito 4-stroke, the FA-82.
I'm going to put it on a GP Ultimate 40 that I'm building. As such, I have a question. As the carb is currently configured, the throttle arm is in the wrong location and the high speed needle is pointing down. Thus, my question is: Can I rotate the carb around. From the look of it, that should be possible.
Can anybody confirm/disconfirm this?
Thanks,
tychoc
I'm going to put it on a GP Ultimate 40 that I'm building. As such, I have a question. As the carb is currently configured, the throttle arm is in the wrong location and the high speed needle is pointing down. Thus, my question is: Can I rotate the carb around. From the look of it, that should be possible.
Can anybody confirm/disconfirm this?
Thanks,
tychoc
04-25-2006, 09:17 PM
#2921
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Mary Esther, Florida, FL
Posts: 20,205
Likes: 0
Received 14 Likes
on
13 Posts
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
tychoc:
As Dave said. Except for the smallest ones, all Saito carbs can be reversed.
And I've entered you as number 270 in Club Saito.
Any relation to Tycho Brahe? Haw.
Bill.
As Dave said. Except for the smallest ones, all Saito carbs can be reversed.
And I've entered you as number 270 in Club Saito.
Any relation to Tycho Brahe? Haw.
Bill.
04-25-2006, 09:27 PM
#2922
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Cedar Park, TX
Posts: 725
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ORIGINAL: William Robison
tychoc:
As Dave said. Except for the smallest ones, all Saito carbs can be reversed.
And I've entered you as number 270 in Club Saito.
Any relation to Tycho Brahe? Haw.
Bill.
tychoc:
As Dave said. Except for the smallest ones, all Saito carbs can be reversed.
And I've entered you as number 270 in Club Saito.
Any relation to Tycho Brahe? Haw.
Bill.
-tychoc
04-26-2006, 09:19 AM
#2924
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Leetonia,
OH
Posts: 279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
William Robison Bill ordered carb o-ring set to fix the leaking intake problem on my 72. Will look for .025 wire. to wire intake in. Was wondering how many other Saitos models have the same problem and if Saito should come up with a better fix that new o-ring & wire? The OS guys are going to pick on me seeing the wire.
Doug
Doug
04-26-2006, 09:40 AM
#2925
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Mary Esther, Florida, FL
Posts: 20,205
Likes: 0
Received 14 Likes
on
13 Posts
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Doug:
The wire is my solution, not Saito's.
The FA-72 and the FA-82 use the same plastic back plate, but the FA-82 doesn't have the vibration problem.
There have been two changes to the back plate since introduction of the FA-72. First was a more rigid plastic, then a change in the shape. The problem is not as common as it was, but as W8YE pointed out, Saito is now supplying spare intake seals with the engine.
And to repeat: the only "Fix-em-all" cure I've found is the wire wrap.
Just tell the OS-morons you're adding weight, trying to lessen the advantages you have gained by using a Saito engine. Haw.
Bill.
The wire is my solution, not Saito's.
The FA-72 and the FA-82 use the same plastic back plate, but the FA-82 doesn't have the vibration problem.
There have been two changes to the back plate since introduction of the FA-72. First was a more rigid plastic, then a change in the shape. The problem is not as common as it was, but as W8YE pointed out, Saito is now supplying spare intake seals with the engine.
And to repeat: the only "Fix-em-all" cure I've found is the wire wrap.
Just tell the OS-morons you're adding weight, trying to lessen the advantages you have gained by using a Saito engine. Haw.
Bill.