Welcome to Club SAITO !
04-26-2006, 11:23 PM
#2952
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ORIGINAL: William Robison
EMVIN:
I’m partial to the Perry VP-30, but it has to be connected to the case vent, and the vent still needs to go to the atmosphere. Easier to use the VP-20 “Shaker†pump. An alternate is the modification kit supplied by Horizon/Saito, it uses the crank case pressure to pump the fuel. Hobbsy bought one, maybe he’ll chime in and tell how his works. I don’t know the price. The kit includes a larger bore carb, a regulating valve, and a replacement back plate.
Easiest might well be the Iron Bay regulator. Pretty much “Plug-n-play,†about $50 to your door. Or the Cline regulator, a bit more expensive but it’s been around longer than the Iron Bay unit.
As I said, give it a try before you commit to anything else. We might both be surprised.
Bill.
EMVIN:
I’m partial to the Perry VP-30, but it has to be connected to the case vent, and the vent still needs to go to the atmosphere. Easier to use the VP-20 “Shaker†pump. An alternate is the modification kit supplied by Horizon/Saito, it uses the crank case pressure to pump the fuel. Hobbsy bought one, maybe he’ll chime in and tell how his works. I don’t know the price. The kit includes a larger bore carb, a regulating valve, and a replacement back plate.
Easiest might well be the Iron Bay regulator. Pretty much “Plug-n-play,†about $50 to your door. Or the Cline regulator, a bit more expensive but it’s been around longer than the Iron Bay unit.
As I said, give it a try before you commit to anything else. We might both be surprised.
Bill.
TC
04-27-2006, 12:51 AM
#2954
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
I need a little advice about an FA-30 I have. The engine has not been run in nearly two years. I turned it over (without a prop), and the exhaust valve stuck in the open position. I could feel the piston touch the valve, but I don't think I did any damage. I took off the valve cover, put a few drops of 3 in 1 oil around the stem, and worked it free. It seems OK now and has good compression.
Now my question: Am I seriously tempting fate if I try to run the engine as it is, or do I need to take off the cylinder and remove the valves and fully clean the valve stems and guides etc.?
Thanks for any thoughts you fellows with a little experience can share in this matter!
Arlen
Now my question: Am I seriously tempting fate if I try to run the engine as it is, or do I need to take off the cylinder and remove the valves and fully clean the valve stems and guides etc.?
Thanks for any thoughts you fellows with a little experience can share in this matter!
Arlen
04-27-2006, 01:05 AM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Arlen:
"If it aint broke..." You might pop the other rocker cover as well, put a few drops of fuel on the other valve stem. Check the valve clearance, put the covers back on and run it.
I'm assuming it turns smoothly, the bearings don't feel rough.
But no, if I haven't made it clear, don't take the engine apart unless there's something wrong internally. A stuck valve doesn't count.
And you are number 272 in our little aggregation. The more the merrier.
Bill.
"If it aint broke..." You might pop the other rocker cover as well, put a few drops of fuel on the other valve stem. Check the valve clearance, put the covers back on and run it.
I'm assuming it turns smoothly, the bearings don't feel rough.
But no, if I haven't made it clear, don't take the engine apart unless there's something wrong internally. A stuck valve doesn't count.
And you are number 272 in our little aggregation. The more the merrier.
Bill.
04-27-2006, 02:24 AM
#2957
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Hi guys. Saito 150 owner. First 4 stroke (2nd engine overall). Not very experienced with engines but read as much as possible trying to learn. I even bought a DVD "About Engines" from Model Airplane (I believe).
The problem is that now I'm getting contradictory info and I don't know which one to believe. On the DVD the guy swears by the pinch test (up/down in rpm = rich, down/up = way lean, constant rmp = lean, up/stays there = perfect) and also on the smoke trail. On the saito.info site the guy says the pinch test as well as the smoke trail doesn't mean much and the best way to do it is with the tach. Peak it then bring it back 200-300 rmps. The problem with this is that the rmps never stay the same they jump around too much.
I kinda tried both and here's what I got. With a 17x6 APC it peaks at about 9400 and I took it back to about 9100. The pinch test however shows a lean condition (pinching the line doesn't do anything). Here I can tell the power is pretty good and I still get a slight smoke trail (I believe not at all times). When I go with the pinch test to the "perfect" condition (rmps go up and stay there) the rmps drop (I forgat exactly to what but I believe it's around) 8800-8900 the smoke trail is a lot more pronounced and at all times but the power is noticeably less. I would love to leave it at the 9100 rmp setting but I'm afraid that's too lean and I'm not leaving enough room for it to lean when the tank level is getting low??? I don't know...SO...where should I set it at???
The problem is that now I'm getting contradictory info and I don't know which one to believe. On the DVD the guy swears by the pinch test (up/down in rpm = rich, down/up = way lean, constant rmp = lean, up/stays there = perfect) and also on the smoke trail. On the saito.info site the guy says the pinch test as well as the smoke trail doesn't mean much and the best way to do it is with the tach. Peak it then bring it back 200-300 rmps. The problem with this is that the rmps never stay the same they jump around too much.
I kinda tried both and here's what I got. With a 17x6 APC it peaks at about 9400 and I took it back to about 9100. The pinch test however shows a lean condition (pinching the line doesn't do anything). Here I can tell the power is pretty good and I still get a slight smoke trail (I believe not at all times). When I go with the pinch test to the "perfect" condition (rmps go up and stay there) the rmps drop (I forgat exactly to what but I believe it's around) 8800-8900 the smoke trail is a lot more pronounced and at all times but the power is noticeably less. I would love to leave it at the 9100 rmp setting but I'm afraid that's too lean and I'm not leaving enough room for it to lean when the tank level is getting low??? I don't know...SO...where should I set it at???
04-27-2006, 07:51 AM
#2958
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ORIGINAL: strulag
Hi guys. Saito 150 owner. First 4 stroke (2nd engine overall). Not very experienced with engines but read as much as possible trying to learn. I even bought a DVD "About Engines" from Model Airplane (I believe).
The problem is that now I'm getting contradictory info and I don't know which one to believe. On the DVD the guy swears by the pinch test (up/down in rpm = rich, down/up = way lean, constant rmp = lean, up/stays there = perfect) and also on the smoke trail. On the saito.info site the guy says the pinch test as well as the smoke trail doesn't mean much and the best way to do it is with the tach. Peak it then bring it back 200-300 rmps. The problem with this is that the rmps never stay the same they jump around too much.
I kinda tried both and here's what I got. With a 17x6 APC it peaks at about 9400 and I took it back to about 9100. The pinch test however shows a lean condition (pinching the line doesn't do anything). Here I can tell the power is pretty good and I still get a slight smoke trail (I believe not at all times). When I go with the pinch test to the "perfect" condition (rmps go up and stay there) the rmps drop (I forgat exactly to what but I believe it's around) 8800-8900 the smoke trail is a lot more pronounced and at all times but the power is noticeably less. I would love to leave it at the 9100 rmp setting but I'm afraid that's too lean and I'm not leaving enough room for it to lean when the tank level is getting low??? I don't know...SO...where should I set it at???
Hi guys. Saito 150 owner. First 4 stroke (2nd engine overall). Not very experienced with engines but read as much as possible trying to learn. I even bought a DVD "About Engines" from Model Airplane (I believe).
The problem is that now I'm getting contradictory info and I don't know which one to believe. On the DVD the guy swears by the pinch test (up/down in rpm = rich, down/up = way lean, constant rmp = lean, up/stays there = perfect) and also on the smoke trail. On the saito.info site the guy says the pinch test as well as the smoke trail doesn't mean much and the best way to do it is with the tach. Peak it then bring it back 200-300 rmps. The problem with this is that the rmps never stay the same they jump around too much.
I kinda tried both and here's what I got. With a 17x6 APC it peaks at about 9400 and I took it back to about 9100. The pinch test however shows a lean condition (pinching the line doesn't do anything). Here I can tell the power is pretty good and I still get a slight smoke trail (I believe not at all times). When I go with the pinch test to the "perfect" condition (rmps go up and stay there) the rmps drop (I forgat exactly to what but I believe it's around) 8800-8900 the smoke trail is a lot more pronounced and at all times but the power is noticeably less. I would love to leave it at the 9100 rmp setting but I'm afraid that's too lean and I'm not leaving enough room for it to lean when the tank level is getting low??? I don't know...SO...where should I set it at???
PS: I use a one-way valve on the muffler pressure - pressure can only go from muffler to tank. This way you don't get fuel up your muffler when fueling.
http://www.fraserker.com/heli/uniflo...flow_works.htm
04-27-2006, 07:52 PM
#2959
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Hello Bill
Hope everything is good down south. Have a quick question for you. Have been waiting on carb gasket set to get here from Horizon Hobby to fix my leaky intake pipe on my SAito 72. It came today (SAI8091B) Should it have contained a new aluminum washer to hold o-ring in?
Doug
Hope everything is good down south. Have a quick question for you. Have been waiting on carb gasket set to get here from Horizon Hobby to fix my leaky intake pipe on my SAito 72. It came today (SAI8091B) Should it have contained a new aluminum washer to hold o-ring in?
Doug
04-27-2006, 08:07 PM
#2960
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
I bought a gasket set for mine last September and it had the steel washer that goes on the manifold but I bought this one...
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...rodID=SAI7232A
Looking at the picture of the one you bought, it should have the washer?
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...rodID=SAI8091B
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...rodID=SAI7232A
Looking at the picture of the one you bought, it should have the washer?
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...rodID=SAI8091B
04-27-2006, 08:41 PM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Thanks gjeffers & w8ye
They left it out of the one I opened.
I went and checked the second one I'd bought. Good thing I bought two sets. Thats my luck. Any idea what the nylon washer is for?
Doug
They left it out of the one I opened.
I went and checked the second one I'd bought. Good thing I bought two sets. Thats my luck. Any idea what the nylon washer is for?Doug
04-27-2006, 08:49 PM
#2963
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
All:
The carb kit for the mid block engines is supposed to have the metal washer in it.
The white "Nylon" washer is Teflon, it's the seal for the sliding choke plate on the engines that have them, without the choke it's not used.
Bill.
The carb kit for the mid block engines is supposed to have the metal washer in it.
The white "Nylon" washer is Teflon, it's the seal for the sliding choke plate on the engines that have them, without the choke it's not used.
Bill.
04-27-2006, 08:56 PM
#2964
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Bill,
I saw an OS .91 (non Surpass from around 1987ish) suddenly break. They plane was just about over me when it had a split second of the RPMs winding up and then silence. I heard a clunk, but that may have been the bottom piece of the crankcase hitting the cowl. It blew the whole bottom out of the engine. I think that W8YE saw it later.
I saw an OS .91 (non Surpass from around 1987ish) suddenly break. They plane was just about over me when it had a split second of the RPMs winding up and then silence. I heard a clunk, but that may have been the bottom piece of the crankcase hitting the cowl. It blew the whole bottom out of the engine. I think that W8YE saw it later.
04-27-2006, 09:02 PM
#2965
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
I did some more flying with my saito 82 on Tuesday. Happy to report very good performance, and an idle I could almost count. 
It has about 6 or 7 10oz tanks through it now, and it is still very rich. I have about 1/4" of oil on my right wing/tail when I'm done. I love this engine so far. Awesome torque for my 5lb 6oz plane with a 14x6 prop and 15% wildcat fuel.
It has about 6 or 7 10oz tanks through it now, and it is still very rich. I have about 1/4" of oil on my right wing/tail when I'm done. I love this engine so far. Awesome torque for my 5lb 6oz plane with a 14x6 prop and 15% wildcat fuel.
04-27-2006, 09:10 PM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
[b]Barry:
I guess I've been fortunate, I've never had an engine failure with a Saito. I have had many Fox cranks break in flight, and even had one of my revered K&B engines come apart. But never a Saito.
Bill.
I guess I've been fortunate, I've never had an engine failure with a Saito. I have had many Fox cranks break in flight, and even had one of my revered K&B engines come apart. But never a Saito.
Bill.
04-27-2006, 09:43 PM
#2967
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Jim may know more about what happened to the .91. I'm kind of sure that the owner took reasonable care of it. He mentioned that he thought it was running hotter than normal that day, but I'm not sure how he determined that with the cowl on.
04-27-2006, 10:01 PM
#2968
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
William Robison
Unfortunately my Saito 65 received a very rude shock. My CMPro Lancair 360 augered in from about 100 ft and is a write off. The aircraft was in an unrecoverable spin so the motor was shut down just prior to (vertical) impact with terrain. The terrain in question fortuantely is what most of Western Australia is made up of - very soft sand. My question Bill is this: Considering the engine was shut down, what inspections (if any) would you recommned I carry out on the engine prior to return to service? I am mindful of your edict "If it aint broke" so am loath to unnecessarily strip the thing down.
The crank appears fine with zero perceivable run out on prop shaft, motor turns over smoothly. Carb was removed and induction system checked for FOD - all good.
After cleaning, motor was liberally injected with ATF and stored since accident.
Grateful for any advice.
TC
Unfortunately my Saito 65 received a very rude shock. My CMPro Lancair 360 augered in from about 100 ft and is a write off. The aircraft was in an unrecoverable spin so the motor was shut down just prior to (vertical) impact with terrain. The terrain in question fortuantely is what most of Western Australia is made up of - very soft sand. My question Bill is this: Considering the engine was shut down, what inspections (if any) would you recommned I carry out on the engine prior to return to service? I am mindful of your edict "If it aint broke" so am loath to unnecessarily strip the thing down.
The crank appears fine with zero perceivable run out on prop shaft, motor turns over smoothly. Carb was removed and induction system checked for FOD - all good.
After cleaning, motor was liberally injected with ATF and stored since accident.
Grateful for any advice.
TC
04-27-2006, 10:12 PM
#2969
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
TC:
Sorry to hear you now have one fewer airplanes. There are very few of us who hnave not had similar misfortunes, doesn't make any of us happier though.
About the only thing I would have done differently is one additional step; pop the exhaust and make sure no sand went up the bung hole.
If all is smooth turning and it's clean with nothing pulled through the carb just go ahead and run it in the next plane.
Bill.
Sorry to hear you now have one fewer airplanes. There are very few of us who hnave not had similar misfortunes, doesn't make any of us happier though.
About the only thing I would have done differently is one additional step; pop the exhaust and make sure no sand went up the bung hole.
If all is smooth turning and it's clean with nothing pulled through the carb just go ahead and run it in the next plane.
Bill.
04-27-2006, 10:23 PM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ORIGINAL: William Robison
TC:
Sorry to hear you now have one fewer airplanes. There are very few of us who hnave not had similar misfortunes, doesn't make any of us happier though.
About the only thing I would have done differently is one additional step; pop the exhaust and make sure no sand went up the bung hole.
If all is smooth turning and it's clean with nothing pulled through the carb just go ahead and run it in the next plane.
Bill.
TC:
Sorry to hear you now have one fewer airplanes. There are very few of us who hnave not had similar misfortunes, doesn't make any of us happier though.
About the only thing I would have done differently is one additional step; pop the exhaust and make sure no sand went up the bung hole.
If all is smooth turning and it's clean with nothing pulled through the carb just go ahead and run it in the next plane.
Bill.
Thanks Bill will do axactly that.
Am now looking for a replacement. BTW also looking at the new TF Staggerwing shown in the Toledo Show movies available elsewhere on this fine website. Now I just have to figure out how to get it past "She Who Must Be Obeyed" along with a second radial to power it. I say second because my 170 is earmarked for the Great Planes Super Stearman I recently acquired.
Maybe I wax lyrical about the beautiful Candy Apple finish or some such thing?
God I love this!!!!!
Safe Flying
TC
04-28-2006, 01:52 AM
#2971
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ORIGINAL: strulag
Hi guys. Saito 150 owner. First 4 stroke (2nd engine overall). Not very experienced with engines but read as much as possible trying to learn. I even bought a DVD "About Engines" from Model Airplane (I believe).
The problem is that now I'm getting contradictory info and I don't know which one to believe. On the DVD the guy swears by the pinch test (up/down in rpm = rich, down/up = way lean, constant rmp = lean, up/stays there = perfect) and also on the smoke trail. On the saito.info site the guy says the pinch test as well as the smoke trail doesn't mean much and the best way to do it is with the tach. Peak it then bring it back 200-300 rmps. The problem with this is that the rmps never stay the same they jump around too much.
I kinda tried both and here's what I got. With a 17x6 APC it peaks at about 9400 and I took it back to about 9100. The pinch test however shows a lean condition (pinching the line doesn't do anything). Here I can tell the power is pretty good and I still get a slight smoke trail (I believe not at all times). When I go with the pinch test to the "perfect" condition (rmps go up and stay there) the rmps drop (I forgat exactly to what but I believe it's around) 8800-8900 the smoke trail is a lot more pronounced and at all times but the power is noticeably less. I would love to leave it at the 9100 rmp setting but I'm afraid that's too lean and I'm not leaving enough room for it to lean when the tank level is getting low??? I don't know...SO...where should I set it at???
Hi guys. Saito 150 owner. First 4 stroke (2nd engine overall). Not very experienced with engines but read as much as possible trying to learn. I even bought a DVD "About Engines" from Model Airplane (I believe).
The problem is that now I'm getting contradictory info and I don't know which one to believe. On the DVD the guy swears by the pinch test (up/down in rpm = rich, down/up = way lean, constant rmp = lean, up/stays there = perfect) and also on the smoke trail. On the saito.info site the guy says the pinch test as well as the smoke trail doesn't mean much and the best way to do it is with the tach. Peak it then bring it back 200-300 rmps. The problem with this is that the rmps never stay the same they jump around too much.
I kinda tried both and here's what I got. With a 17x6 APC it peaks at about 9400 and I took it back to about 9100. The pinch test however shows a lean condition (pinching the line doesn't do anything). Here I can tell the power is pretty good and I still get a slight smoke trail (I believe not at all times). When I go with the pinch test to the "perfect" condition (rmps go up and stay there) the rmps drop (I forgat exactly to what but I believe it's around) 8800-8900 the smoke trail is a lot more pronounced and at all times but the power is noticeably less. I would love to leave it at the 9100 rmp setting but I'm afraid that's too lean and I'm not leaving enough room for it to lean when the tank level is getting low??? I don't know...SO...where should I set it at???
]
04-28-2006, 08:13 PM
#2972
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
WOW - I just got the GO FOR IT from the bride on a Saito 325 5 cyl and a Pacific Aero 27% Gee BEE. I ordered it before she had a chance to change her mind. Has anyone else put this combo together? I'd be interested to hear from them.
Thanks,
#260
now 14 Saitos
Thanks,
#260
now 14 Saitos
04-29-2006, 12:00 PM
#2973
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
9100 to 9400 rpm is too high. The Saito 1.50 has tremendous torque. Use a larger prop at lower rpm. You will get more thrust and better fuel economy. I run 18-6 props on mine at about 8800 rpm.
04-29-2006, 12:34 PM
#2974
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
You guys discussing props/rpm has got me wondering if the 16x6 on my 1.50 may be contributing to the trouble Ive been having tuning it.It is on a CG Ultimate.I have one on a CG Extra as well.It is a lower time engine than the one on the Ulti so it is still rich and I havent noticed the tuning trouble yet(even rich it is more than enough for the plane).I know prop size opinions vary,but would be interested in some of you guys' thoughts.
04-29-2006, 02:15 PM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Bill, do you agree with the set up of the vp-30 perry pump that is displayed on this website? (I found a nice diagram on this web site http://saito-engines.info/pumps.html )