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09-02-2019, 06:29 AM
Moderator
As stated above, I've already replaced the needle seat. It's not belled.
And no, taking off with an engine that won't idle reliably will not sort itself out in the air. When it won't idle long enough to taxi out to takeoff and will likely stumble on acceleration from being so rich if I need to do a go around, that's an engine that is not yet airworthy. I'm not trying to get an 1800 rpm idle that last for 15 minutes and instantly accelerates to full throttle, although Saitos can do that. I'm just looking to get a reliable engine that will idle low enough to be able to land the plane.
And no, taking off with an engine that won't idle reliably will not sort itself out in the air. When it won't idle long enough to taxi out to takeoff and will likely stumble on acceleration from being so rich if I need to do a go around, that's an engine that is not yet airworthy. I'm not trying to get an 1800 rpm idle that last for 15 minutes and instantly accelerates to full throttle, although Saitos can do that. I'm just looking to get a reliable engine that will idle low enough to be able to land the plane.
09-02-2019, 06:38 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Colonial Beach, VA
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As stated above, I've already replaced the needle seat. It's not belled.
And no, taking off with an engine that won't idle reliably will not sort itself out in the air. When it won't idle long enough to taxi out to takeoff and will likely stumble on acceleration from being so rich if I need to do a go around, that's an engine that is not yet airworthy. I'm not trying to get an 1800 rpm idle that last for 15 minutes and instantly accelerates to full throttle, although Saitos can do that. I'm just looking to get a reliable engine that will idle low enough to be able to land the plane.
And no, taking off with an engine that won't idle reliably will not sort itself out in the air. When it won't idle long enough to taxi out to takeoff and will likely stumble on acceleration from being so rich if I need to do a go around, that's an engine that is not yet airworthy. I'm not trying to get an 1800 rpm idle that last for 15 minutes and instantly accelerates to full throttle, although Saitos can do that. I'm just looking to get a reliable engine that will idle low enough to be able to land the plane.
Alrighty then, the suggestions offered above will do that.
09-02-2019, 08:32 AM
Moderator
I tried the tubing over the needle valve. I can't see any difference. Given that the engine has all new orings, that's not terribly surprising. But it was worth checking out.
I also tried backing the LSN out more than is recommended on the theory that needle valve imbalance is the issue. That did let me lean the HSN more, but I still had a blubbering idle that wound up with the same results as before.
I don't have a problem with things being simple. I've tried every suggestion anyone made on this forum. I think the engine started with multiple problems, since some solutions made it better without fixing it completely. But I do know how to tune an engine.
Do any of you know about the effects of case elongation or any other distortion on old engines? I can't imagine actual wear being a factor, as I've replaced bearings and the sleeve looks good. The compression is good too, so I know the ring is good. But I know that crankcases can stretch over time.
Unless someone has a new thing to look into, I'm going to send the engine to Saito. It'll cost me about $30 to have them go through it. Maybe they'll figure it out.
I also tried backing the LSN out more than is recommended on the theory that needle valve imbalance is the issue. That did let me lean the HSN more, but I still had a blubbering idle that wound up with the same results as before.
I don't have a problem with things being simple. I've tried every suggestion anyone made on this forum. I think the engine started with multiple problems, since some solutions made it better without fixing it completely. But I do know how to tune an engine.
Do any of you know about the effects of case elongation or any other distortion on old engines? I can't imagine actual wear being a factor, as I've replaced bearings and the sleeve looks good. The compression is good too, so I know the ring is good. But I know that crankcases can stretch over time.
Unless someone has a new thing to look into, I'm going to send the engine to Saito. It'll cost me about $30 to have them go through it. Maybe they'll figure it out.
09-02-2019, 12:18 PM
09-02-2019, 05:07 PM
Well yes, or so it would seem. Thing is, with an airbleed carb an intake leak renders the AB screw just about useless. Combine that with an engine that's not fully broke in, one that is over propped or one which is idled too low an overly rich hsn setting is required just get it to run halfway decent and you will never be able to lean the engine enough at idle. Even if you completely remove the airbleed screw. As I said, I've been fooled into thinking I had no intake leak before.
09-02-2019, 05:22 PM
Sounds like you were "wanted man" there Dave
Never had the benefit of a formal education here.
Not sure if that fellow was talking about the A series Austin engine or not. The A-35 iirc used a 948cc and at least one version of the A-40 used the 1098cc engines, a pretty good performance jump between the two.
There was another American small car that made good use of the Austin A series; The Nash "Metropolitan" compact was a cute little bugger that was quite happy with that Austin power plant . Sadly the later MG Midgets employed a Triumph Spitfire engine that had been taken a step too far , out to a crank stressing 1500cc in a vain attempt to recapture power lost in the name of lower emissions. Once a tough engine line was reduced to a rod tossing, main spinning useless lump. We converted many 1500 Spit-Midgets back to 1275 real Midgets back then.
There was also a swap that involved putting tha Vauxhall into Austin Mini but I am not familiar with Austin engined Vauxhall cars.
Then again it may have been a one off.
09-02-2019, 05:54 PM
My Feedback: (1)
I had a 74 MG Midget. and the one in front of the house down the street looked pretty cool with flared finders and big tires and a big air scoop on the hood, yeeaa>, it had a stock Ford 302 in it. I don't know what it had in the rear but it sure was not MG, maybe an old Jeep axle??? it was white with a green stripe down the middle of the hood. I had my 71 Nova at the time, but I sure wanted to drive that Midget but never got to
Jim
Jim
09-02-2019, 09:58 PM
Jim it's fair enough to talk fondly about old austins in a mechanical sense, especially the mini cooper series, known as morris minis over here. But i always think about the rusty bodies since i'm a spraypainter/panelbeater...and this was austin's crowning achievement, nothing, but nothing rusted quicker than the austin 1800 known as 'the landcrab' over here. I still get at least one call a year from MG owners wanting me to come out and look at the car then give them a price. I don't need to go out and look i know what i'm going to see, and it's bad news for my mental health
09-02-2019, 10:15 PM
Have you really wound the lsn right out flush with the throttle arm and leaned the hsn to peak rpm at full throttle? once you have done that back the throttle off till it will just keep running (around 3 to 4000rpm) then start screwing low speed needle in quite quickly for a few turns as nothing happens till you get to a certain spot, then the revs rise quickly and the engine smooths out and even then you still keep going as you pull more throttle off, the engine smooths out more and the rpm near idle rises rapidly when you get close. What peak rpm have you had, and what prop, did you say you fitted a mas classic?
09-03-2019, 02:00 AM
Jim it's fair enough to talk fondly about old austins in a mechanical sense, especially the mini cooper series, known as morris minis over here. But i always think about the rusty bodies since i'm a spraypainter/panelbeater...and this was austin's crowning achievement, nothing, but nothing rusted quicker than the austin 1800 known as 'the landcrab' over here. I still get at least one call a year from MG owners wanting me to come out and look at the car then give them a price. I don't need to go out and look i know what i'm going to see, and it's bad news for my mental health
Mini sheet metal is yet another world of its own.
Not sure about today but back in the 70s and 80s, replacement sheet metal was plentiful and cheap. We used to send them out for a complete chemical dip and strip. Real easy then to cut away the rot and replace with fresh metal.
That old Saito 120 fathead carb is a very nicely made device. The idle and mid is adjusted with the variable flow disc and fine tuned with a ported air bleed. The system however makes starting a very narrowly set throttle range. The idle is outstanding, easily under 1600.
09-03-2019, 04:12 AM
The fuel metering disc is very similar in principle and design. The fathead carb is different because the disc is independently adjustable. A very nice feature. It allows you to get the good idle and transition with less need to compromise one for the other.
This is one of their better efforts.
This is one of their better efforts.
09-03-2019, 05:15 AM
Jim it's fair enough to talk fondly about old austins in a mechanical sense, especially the mini cooper series, known as morris minis over here. But i always think about the rusty bodies since i'm a spraypainter/panelbeater...and this was austin's crowning achievement, nothing, but nothing rusted quicker than the austin 1800 known as 'the landcrab' over here. I still get at least one call a year from MG owners wanting me to come out and look at the car then give them a price. I don't need to go out and look i know what i'm going to see, and it's bad news for my mental health
Captain is that slave driver your working for giving you any time to sleep let alone mess with Saitos?
Mike
09-03-2019, 05:33 AM
Jim it's fair enough to talk fondly about old austins in a mechanical sense, especially the mini cooper series, known as morris minis over here. But i always think about the rusty bodies since i'm a spraypainter/panelbeater...and this was austin's crowning achievement, nothing, but nothing rusted quicker than the austin 1800 known as 'the landcrab' over here. I still get at least one call a year from MG owners wanting me to come out and look at the car then give them a price. I don't need to go out and look i know what i'm going to see, and it's bad news for my mental health
Chevy Vega. Rusted on the showroom floor.
09-03-2019, 05:41 AM
You just nudged my memory. I had an old friend who passed some time back who had a 1940 Ford pickup. When he rescued it from the field it was sitting in he discovered the frame was completely rusted out. He welding in channel iron inside what was left of the existing frame from end to end. The suspension was also rebuilt due to rust problems I don't remember if it was original I suspect it was modified. He had a Dodge engine and auto transmission sitting in the job so he shoehorns it in the pickup. There was no room for a shifter so he installed a bar with a **** knob on it in the corner next to the driver's door. You counted clicks to know what gear it was in. In spit of the all the southern ingenuity used it drove quite nice. It wasn't fast but if I remember correctly the pickups back then were always geared low for maximum torque. I was looking at a late 30s early 40s International once and it never got above 35 MPH. The friend also had a Ford Bullet Nose with the original flathead V8. It was completely original and went to his son before he passed.
09-03-2019, 05:43 AM
09-03-2019, 05:50 AM
I had a Johnny Cash Vega. It was a 1972 with parts from a 1974, 1975 and 1977. It actually had full unrusted fenders if you can believe that. Engine was from a 77, ignition from a 75, and hatchback from a 74. 2 speed powerglide and that little car could do 95 MPH.
09-03-2019, 05:53 AM
His had a manual in it and was pretty nibble on its feet. He had a blast with it. He had a hot blueprinted V8 he kept saying he wanted to put in it with a subframe of course. He ended up having to sell the motor when he got into financial problems.
09-03-2019, 05:57 AM
I remember one day, my friend and I were sitting in a snack shop we frequented back in the day watching traffic. It was right by an intersection, Fullerton and Pulaski in Chicago. The Vega pulls up to the light, and he revs the engine, and we looked, Vega, with a V8. Cool. Light turns green, he floors it and proceeded to twist the car so much that one rear wheel came off the ground and sat there spinning. He did not have LS in it, but an open diff. We were on the floor we were laughing so hard.
09-03-2019, 06:25 AM
I have seen other Vegas with V8s they all seemed to be a bit twisted and having one front wheel sitting off the pavement when parked isn't that uncommon. Even with a subframe added they still aren't meant for that kind of torque. Have you seen any Pintos with V8s? I haven't.
09-03-2019, 06:28 AM
I don't think there is room for a V8 in a pinto. Ford tended to have very wide inner and outer fenders in those cars. I had a friend with a Maverick with a straight 6 in it and barely enough room on either side for anything else.