Capt Lou

My current Hog, which I built 20 years ago has a K&B .61. It is a great motor, very dependable and a work horse. I'll be able to make the comparison in performance with the Saito's and I'll let you know the results.

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

The dimensions for mounting a Saito 91 and 100 are considerably different.

The OS 70, Magnum/ASP 65-70, Saito 65, 80, & 91 are all the same.

The OS 91, Mag/ASP 91, Saito 100/125 are the same

thrashin

Hi Mr Ed - I use a 15x8 on my Saito 1.20 in a 120 sized Cap 232 and it's a pretty good combo. Will not hover, but seems to have good vertical performance. I have not tried a 14x8, but it might be a good choice too, as I feel the 120 is slightly loaded with the 15x8 and I don't get much RPM change in the last 1/3rd of throttle travel.

Regarding spitting the prop, I thought this was more likely to happen if she's running rich? I use lock nuts to hold my props on tight... never had one spit off my Saitos on a backfire.

Cheers.

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

The only Zinger props that I am familiar with is their wooden props. Wooden props compress at the hub and loosen up for a while, until the wood reaches the point where it will compress no further with a given amount of torque applied to the nut. This loosening makes it a prime candidate for coming off when the engine is tuned lean enough to backfire, as you have discovered.

Do yourself a big favor and add three or four ounces of castor oil per gallon of Cool Power fuel. Seriously, keep in mind that Saito engines are no longer using bushings in their connecting rods. A little castor oil, such as in Omega by the same company, can make all of the difference between having an early burn out, or a long lasting engine.

I used to run Cool Power exclusively in my pattern models. It is good fuel, no doubt, but if you are getting your engine lean enough to throw a prop, you need Omega fuel, not Cool Power.

I would imagine that a 15x6 or 14x8 would be the prop size (APC) that you are looking for. Don't forget that your engine will get somewhat stronger and not be as prone to heat sagging as you accumulate more running time.

Please come back and describe your experience as time goes on.


Ed Cregger

echomike1947

After reading all the glowing reports on Saitos I feel like the odd man out...I purchased a Saito 100 in early Jul 07 to go with my Funtana x 100. Last saturday while in flight it (the engine) suddenly began making a scraping noise and lost power. I didn't feel too bad because I knew I had a 3 year warranty...until I called Horizon today and I was informed that if the problem was a bearing it was not covered under the warranty. I checked the manual after I got off the phone and it says "rusty bearings" are not covered. The engine is less than 4 months old, has had about 2 Gal of cool power 15% synthetic thru it and was always stored in the house. I'll reserve comment until I hear back from Horizon but if my conversation with Matt was any indication I'll bet my problem is going to be rusty bearings.

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

Cheaper way out?

http://www.mcintoshcentral.com/rc-be...a474ffff886d98

echomike1947

Thanks for the web site...I guess in the long run it would have been cheaper to just buy the bearings, but I thought saito would stand behind their product.

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

Some things in life are just not fair?

I don't think anyone will stand behind a rusty bearing?

tailskid

My Feedback: (34)

But WAS it rusty bearings?

Ken6PPC

The fuel we use makes some very corrosive "witches brew" that continues to work on the inner parts when you stop the motor and put it away. If that was MY engine, here is what I'd do:

First, I'd switch to a fuel with some castor oil in it, or at least add a little castor to your Cool Power. This topic is sometimes hotly debated, but (in my opinion) castor adds a LOT of additional engine protection.

Also, be certain to run it dry before putting it away. After the tank is emptied, connect the glow plug heater and spin the engine with an electric starter to get all of the fuel out of the engine.

Lastly, be sure you use some after run oil (ARO). Some use ARO after each day's flying, and some only use it at the end of the season. Again, there are many opinions about the use of ARO, and this one is mine. (Coincidentally, the Saito manual ALSO recommends use of ARO.) I know some who don't use it, but I ALWAYS use ARO to flush out and protect my Saitos when I am done for the day.

As was recommended by the late William Robinson, I use Dexron transmission fluid as an ARO. I just inject some tranny fluid in the crankcase pressure vent tube, and spin the engine with my starter to distribute it.

If you do those three things on a regular basis -

use a small amount of castor in your fuel,
thoroughly burn all remaining fuel out,
and use ARO when putting it away

- you will go a LONG time before you need bearings in your Saito again!

blw

My Feedback: (3)

Hi Mike,

I lived in Enterprise for 12 years.

The bearings are one of those things that will suffer abuse from some owners. That's probably the reason why Horzion won't replace them. They will want to know if you used after run oil, etc.

Replacing the bearings is cheap from the link that W8YE sent you.

Capt Lou

I agree with all that Ken has said but echomike said he used Cool Power fuel and I thought this fuel advertises that it comes with ARO in it and, therefore, you don't have to use ARO.

Ken6PPC

[/quote]
I agree with all that Ken has said but echomike said he used Cool Power fuel and I thought this fuel advertises that it comes with ARO in it and, therefore, you don't have to use ARO.
[/quote]

I wouldn't put much faith in advertising claims!

Besides, it is just SO easy to protect your engine with a little transmission fluid, why NOT do it?

echomike1947

Thats correct, some things in life are not fair, such as cancer, a car wreck thats not your fault ,well you get the picture...but when you pay for a service or a product, you expect a specific result or product (in this case an engine) that is guaranteed to deliver a certain level of performance. If an engine is operated in accordance with the manufacturers instructions (fuel type, prop size, etc) you have an expectation that the engine will operate for greater than 4 months and if it dosen't than the manufacturer or their representative should stand behind the product.
Again this is not about the $40.00 Horizon estimates it will charge to repair the engine, it's the principle of the matter...and whether it's fair or not has nothing to do with this matter.

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

Mike,
No one stands behind a rusty bearing

PHIL S

My Feedback: (61)

I've been using Cool Power 15% in all my engines for several years and have never had a bearing failure.I don't use after run oil .I fly with this man and he doesn't abuse his engines.In this particular case I'm sure this engine was defective.I can't believe that Saito won't warranty this engine. It's only 3-4 months old. Doesn't say much for their customer service.
PHIL

jessiej

]

I wouldn't put much faith in advertising claims!

Besides, it is just SO easy to protect your engine with a little transmission fluid, why NOT do it?
[/quote]


I agree on both counts!

jess

XJet

I'm with you guys...

Synthetic oils have many advantages but they make lousy protectors against corrosion/rust and have a lower ultimate film strength than castor.

I despair every time I hear someone tell me they run fuel with all synthetic oil because their engine stays "cleaner" and there's less mess to clean off their plane.

Good grief -- you only need 2% of your total fuel package to be castor (the balance being synthetic) to get a huge benefit from this old but proven lubricant and virtually eliminate the negative aspects.

I've never lost bearings to rust -- probably because all my engines run with a sniff of castor in their fuel.

Saito have a problem with the FA100 bearings -- a lot of them crap out within the first 10 hours or so of running -- but not from rust, unless you're running a straight synth oil package.

Don't believe the fuel-maker's claim that they've added anti-corrosion agents -- there's just not a whole lot you can do to make a pure synth package totally corrosion-resistant. Besides which, any anti-corrosion agent is unlikely to be a good lubricant so they're effectively telling you that they're reducing the performance of their product by contaminating it with something that isn't providing lubrication.

We run 12% of a *very* high quality oil in our engines here (synthetic/castor blend). Despite this very low oil content, none of our engines are rusting away and the new bearings (from RC-Bearings) I put in my Saito 100 are still smooth as silk, many hours later.

Since Horizon can't control the way people treat/store their engines, they're probably within their rights to refuse to replace rusty bearings (they weren't rusty when you got them) but they really ought to stop recommending people use straight synth lube -- or face the consequences.

Garthwood

W8YE............the attached pictures of front and rear bearings of my Saito .72, I had lost compression on this engine that was about two to two and a half years old Horizon always return the old parts. I was told that it was rust on the fron bearing. I removed the front bearing seal just to have a look. Well.........I could not see any rust. These bearings looked like brand new. The cleaned up the cylinder head, changed both bearings. I was charged $40.00USD. The charge was for the front bearing and labor, no charge for the rear bearing. The second picture shows the front bearing with its seal removed, bearings looks like when they were brand new. I use after run oil with ATF after the day's flying is over....always... always. Those bearings tells me that I did my job and followed the recommandations. Rust is one thing and polishing the cylinder head is another thing. Which it should have been covered by the three year warranty. Rust was the easiest excuse. I know that a charge of $40.00 is nothing to make a fuss about, the point is that there was no evidence of rust on the bearings.

Charles.

echomike1947

Hi Garthwood
I agree with you...if everytime a Saito engine is returned to Horizon for warranty repairs and they charge 40.00 for bearings that are not needed they are covering their expenses for other repairs that they should be paying for. In your case they repaired your cylinder but you paid for it when they charged you for bearings that were not really rusty. I would hate to think that Horizon would run a scam like that and I will give them the benefit of the doubt for now. If Saito 100's do have a history of defective bearings they need to own up to it and not try to shift the blame on the customer.

Clutch Cargo

My Feedback: (69)

Talking about using ARO in the engines brings this question to mind....
I like to use a syringe for applying the oil acurately but the ones I have
the rubber plunger never holds up well with oil.Does anyboby know of a source for
syringes that would work better ? Or suggestions of similar way to apply the oil ?

Zagi_X

Capt Lou

Try one of the filler bottles that are used to fill glow engines in trucks and cars. It is a squese bottle with a curved neck and you can attach some silicone tubing to it that will provide flexibility and extension of the filler nozzle.

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

This is a combo of the best syringe and the best aro in one package. A 16oz aerosol can is about 16 bucks and will last a good two years. I've pulled backplates from engines stored for 10 years and the insides are brand new looking and Corrosion X looks exactly the same as when injected.

SigMan

My Feedback: (21)

I HAVE NEVER SEEN OR HEARD OF CORROSION X. where did you get it hobbsy. NAPA ?

SigMan

My Feedback: (21)

http://www.greatlakescorrosion.com/p...products_id=46