vince.b

My Feedback: (1)

I got a chance to fly my sundowner with the 220.
wow what a sweet engine even on 15%.
the idle was a bit harsh until leaned the bottom end close to turn and a half.
its still abit finicky but its under 2000rpm and there is not even 2 gallons on it.
with any luck it should be burning 30% tomorrow and hopefully it will clean up the idle.
the 220 is swinging 18x12 apc, its alittle heavy and I think i might trim it down just abit, only after i see how it does on the 30% though. the 18x12 is heavy but the lower rpm is sure getting great fuel millage and pretty decent speed and about an once a minite at moderate to heavy throttle. 22 oz tank and 10 minite flight and its always half full.

mike early

I tached my 125 with the APC 16x6. 8200 is about it. It now produces about 9lbs of static thrust. It's the first prop that could hold the plane's weight vertical. I think it weighs about 9lbs. Maybe more.

But 9000 RPM would really be a hoot. I bought this engine expecting 9000. I don't mind giving all my Wildcat 20/20 away and buying 30% nitro fuel if it can give me the 9000.
Their website says 9000 on 15% though. I can live with buying 30%. Is there a chance it might?

I can see how the APC 15x6 would be a better prop to get the RPMs up. I might try that one next.

But do I have a better chance at exchanging this engine with a new one (Horizon customer service does rock)? I seek more power urgently.

Ken6PPC

Mike, is it my imagination, or does that pink fuel tubing in your picture run from the nipple on the backplate into your flex pipe? That hose needs to be open to allow pressure pulses to go both in and out. It also expels excess oil through that tube.

If that hose is connected on both ends, disconnect it and let it hang loose. Then reset your needle valves and check your RPM's again!

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

Even though it is connected at the outlet end of the flex pipe there's a pretty good chance that it will have some back pressure

mike early

I isolated every single variable. Including a shorter tube for that application that was to open air. I did the water test on both nipples and there is, in fact some pressure on that far end nipple. (Not nearly as much as the front one. The front one can push almost 8" of water out and the back one about 2-3) But I can also watch the oil moving through the tube. It has no effect on the speed of the oil droplets exiting the tube. I tell you, the mess comparison is night and day. I would happily sacrifice a couple hundred RPM for the zero mess aspect. But, it really cannot be seen on the tach.
I didn't have the correct sized allen head wrench to fix the servo linkage for my retracts so I couldn't fly it today, damn. The weather is gonna be terrible all weekend. Anyways, I ran two more tanks through it today since I couldn't fly it, I experimented more with the needles. I am pretty sure the needles are at a good setting on both the LS and HS. It idles at 2000 and doesn't hesitate when transitioning to WOT. It immediately hits the redline at 8200, or lower if I richen up a few clicks so it maxes at 8000.

The elbow, the flex exhaust, the stock muffler, the stock muffler with the 90, the crank vent connected or not, different glow plugs, etc. All isolated and have nothing near the effect I am needing.

I was looking at other engines...and I remember why I chose this one. The claimed power/weight ratio is unparalleled in any other 4 stroke. Just not observed.


P.S. The water test on the crank vent would be 100" or more, I'd imagine.

Michaelh

My Feedback: (4)

Something is definetly up with the engine then. I wish I could tell you whatit was, but Ive seen the 125 pull the 9-10+ pound funtana 90 around pretty decent.Nothing exciting to tell you about, pullout from hover was less then exciting and uplines needed a bit of momentum. But still more then what you seem to be seeing.

N1EDM

My Feedback: (2)

Mike, could you explain how you got those numbers for the water test? I've never heard of using that for a model engine. That could be interesting.

I'd also have to agree with W8YE and Ken6PPC about trying a run with just simple pressure to the tank and letting the backplate vent run free to the atmosphere.

Ken, is that PPC in your name from somemilitary piloting you might have done?

Bob

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

You may very well see the oil moving at the same speed as going directly out but that arrangement could still be causing back pressure in the crankcase. One of the biggest secrets to max power is to keep things short, as straight as possible and simple. Are you sure the throttle opening all the way, that looks pretty iffy to me.

vince.b

My Feedback: (1)

saito 220
I have a few more flights on the sundowner.
I am useing a 17.5x12 on 15% nitro 20% oil and every couple of flights I can hear, see and feel the engine getting stronger.
The idle is still a bit finicky at 1800 but it has richened up again and there is no onboard glow, not to mention its the same plug from the very first run.
Just my 2 cents
Nirto is an oxygenator. @ 30% there is over 60 more oxygen in the fuel.
Oil of course it lubes the parts but it also pulls heat out the engine, and the big one it will retards the timeing or avdance the timeing.
more is retarding, less advances
Hmmm.... I have the vent hose running to the bottom of the landing gear. I am going to trim that up. what do you think ?

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

Bob,

Mike has two pressure taps on his exhaust. The front one is the true pressure tap that goes to the tank. The rear one is where the crankcase is connected

mike early

To see if a tube has air pressure, one may hold it under a water. It takes pressure to displace the water that fills the tube. The deeper the tube is, the more pressure is required to blow bubbles. I read somewhere that 6" is good enough to pressurize a fuel tank.

I also ran my engine with a very short open-ended tube on the crank case vent. No observable effect on WOT Prop RPM.

alfredbmor

Recently I have read at MAN's Clarence Lee colum that is not a good Idea to connect the crankcase vent to the muffler. What I remember is that the crankcase takes air and spits oil, if you connect it to the muffler at the moment that it takes air it could be contaminated with the exhaust particles and could reduce the life span of the engine.
He also explains that is better if the connection is made by tapping the intake, as some engines already come from factory.

Michaelh

My Feedback: (4)

This guy said that a while back and got treated like an idiot! http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_33...anchor/tm.htm#

But hey what does an idiot like me know? Ill just go fly my planes and stay out of it.

But for real I hope you get this situation figured out, I hate a good mystery. Especially when it leaves me on the ground .

Mike,

Dan D

My Feedback: (6)

Hi Guys , All my motors are 2 cycle glow. I'am selling a 60 size glow plane, a guy E-Mailed me to see if his 82 Saito will be OK in this plane. What should I tell him? Thanks Dan

mike early

seeing is believing for me.

mike early

I am sure if the tube was very short, there might be some contamination indeed. My tube is too long for a single upstroke to suck anything the length of the tube.

You think it is better to put the crank vent back to the intake? That would probably affect performance, no?

mike early

Sarcasm noted.
If you cannot help someone who asks for help, might as well flame the guy.

My plane flies fine.

Dan D

My Feedback: (6)

Hi, is that a yes that the motor will be OK for this plane, or does it mean no?????Thanks Dan

mike early

what do you think blow-by is? it is mainly exhaust gasses escaping past the rings upon combustion.

mike early

sorry, i was merely trying to defend myself.

I imagine the 82 would fly the plane. A person may or may not want more power. I probably would.

blw

My Feedback: (3)

which model are you asking about?

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

If you observe the vent tube at anything above idle the flow is all outward, there is simply not enough time for reversal and in flow.

Michaelh

My Feedback: (4)

I know itll work Mike Early, Im not sure if O.S does it straight into the exhaust but they do do it and makes for a smokey engine also.

Just seems it would be better if it were to be dumped into atmosphere. I did play around with my .82 a bit, being the engine is inverted I did notice a difference with lenght of the tube mainly at idle the engine would load up pretty fast. Crankcase temps may also be a factor?

Here a pic of a Hog Bipe with the O.S I believe its a 90 thought yall might like. Pretty Plane!

ILv2Xlr8

I am debating what size Saito engine to put onto a 56" [link=http://www.nitroplanes.com/yak543d5056n.html]Yak 54[/link] with a wing loading of ~5.3lb/616sq in.

What size wide 3D prop could you spin on a [link=http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=SAIE056GK]Saito 56[/link] or a[link=http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=SAIE072GK]Saito 72[/link]?

What RPMs can I expect with wide 3D propellers?

Are there any special break-in procedures with wide 3D propellers?

Is Saito the right choice for 3D, or do other mfgs perform better?

Thanks for any advice.

Ken6PPC

It is tough to beat a Saito, in my opinion.

I'd use a Saito 82 on that plane, spinning either a 14x4W or 15x4 APC.