Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

Jim, here is your old Joss Stik, reborn or re-engine-eered again. So far it has worn a Fox .74 Diesel, a SuperTigre .90 Diesel, YS .91 FZ and now the Saito TS .90. Someday I'll grow up, not. The plane flies like its on rails even in wind.

balsaeater

[] just had a bad session with my 180

I suspect it is a fuel tank issues

The only thing I don't like is the TAPPETS GET MUCH MORE NOISY WITH EACH RUN

Is the 18 *6 W APC to big for the 180

Engine was running OK on 20% EDL zero nitro on a APC 18*6 for running in purposes

The fuel tubing on the tank broke at the exhast and the engine stopped so I rebuilt the whole tank with new tubing

I had before the tank rebuild put a gallon through the motor and so I gave the engine a quick start up at home before going to fly and everything went well

I then changed the fuel to ~10% nitro ~13% EDL ~2% Klots =~15 synthetic oil total and the engine would not run right
At full gas it will sag and occasional bubble in the line appears
On mid gas it will run OK but when you go down the runway it will sag and so abort take off is required

I am ripping out the tank tommorow to see if a blockage exists and rebuilding the tank

Balsaeater

rlmcnii

My Feedback: (3)

OTP

Are you, by chance, putting pressure in the tank with a hose from the crankcase vent? Have you leaned the HS and LS needles yet?

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

Hobbsy, that Joss Stick still looks mighty good. Have you flown it with the TS90 yet? I'd like to hear how powerful it seems?

I have a 100T and a TS90 and I also have a Ultra Stick 60 and a Big Stick 60. I would like to try one of these engines on those planes.

Jim

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

Balsa,

When you increase the nitro, you need to readjust the needle valve. The nitro requires you to need to open the needle by a few clicks.

An 18-6W sounds like a hefty load for a 180 on no nitro

The valve rattling you are hearing is probably preignition from running the engine fuel mixture too lean

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

On The Patch

The black stuff in the pressure line is sometimes just caused from running the engine fast. It doesn't seem to hurt anything.

I've also noticed that you see more of it if you have the pressure tap on the bottom side of the muffler. Sometimes with certain mufflers on Saitos you have no choice about the location of the pressure tap.

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

Jim, it partly looks good because I put 16th inch ply in front and behind the stock firewall, it had a lot of holes in it, I put masking tape on the front, filled the holes with two hour epoxy first. I haven't flown it with the TS .90 yet, I had the TurboHeaders on it with the 90 degree adapters but decided to pull the cylinders out just far enough to get the THs on without them. Thanks, Dave

Pit-Viper 1

My Feedback: (12)

Man it's been awhile since I was here last time. Got a 1.25 recently and put it in my wife H9 Corsair. I use a APC 16X8 usually on this motor but wanted a 3-blade for this plane. Would a 14" or 15" be better. I was thinking a 15X8 would be a good choice but hate 2 buy one I won't use. Anyway here is the maiden for those who haven't seen it on RCU. Enjoy..

[link]http://www.rcuvideos.com/item/K0G31PRZDM0V3647[/link]


Shane

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

http://www.hobby-lobby.com/grprop.htm

Go here, scroll down to the 3 blades and check out the 14x7, should be perfect and look good too.

Pit-Viper 1

My Feedback: (12)

Cool props, thanks a bunch Hobbsy..

Shane

balsaeater

I did increase fuel flow from ~2 turns on zero nitro to 2 to 2.5 turns ( but was burbling and acting badly on ~2 3/4 to~3 turns ) but I suspect now that the fuel tank a 20 onz Kavan hasn't got the ability to deliver the extra fuel demands as the plumbing in general possibly to small both for pressuring the tank from the exhast and sending fuel to engine
On zero nitro the engine used WOT ~2 onz per minute so I suspect WOT 10% nitro could require ~2.25 onz per minute


Engine is mostly in flight used at 1/4 to 1/2 gas and rarely used at more then 2/3 gas when in flight and WOT is only done on ground tests for short durations for getting the engine tuned correctly
This results in fuel demands more in the ~1 onz per minute for flying
However even attempts to get a test fllight only using half gas the engine would sag on less than 1/2 gas going down the runway so I suspect some fuel line blockage issues or possibly a blocked jet

I am going to check engine tank the lot and rebuild the tank and if necessary modify the tank with much larger plumbing and see if that solves the problem

Gremlins I hate them especialy when they bite on a nice flying day

The TAPPETS RATTLE is not when the engine runs but when I manually turn engine over but there is no indications of tappet rattle when engine is running so I was just concerned that the tappets were bent from over loading of too big a prop
Info garnered from forums seemedthat lots used the APC 18*6w on a Saito 180 with only a complaint of slow spool up but no reports of problems for engine
Maybe they are just naturally noisy tappets but I wasn't very keen to go into adjusting tappets after only one gallon
Equally I don't want to ignore something in case it is important but the prop change is delayed while waiting for a MA 18*6

On The Patch!

Hello

No its straight out of the muffler. Crankcase vent just goes to a bit of fueltubing hanging down under the plane to direct the goo away from the "engine-room".

On The Patch!

Hello, and thanks for your reply!

I am not sure I understand what you mean about "running the engine fast", you mean full throttle, or just really lean?
Also, forgot to say, the engine is mounted inverted, can that have anything to do with it? Old goo building up at the top (in this case down) of the cylinder?

The engine seems to be leaking from somewhere as well, as I can see fuel around the crankcase in different places after every run. Is this just a matter of letting it "bed in" properly and it will seal itself or do I actually have a leak somewhere? I can't figure out where it is coming from...

Johan

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

BE, that clicking is perfectly normal as the cam is accelerated forward by the "hump" on the cam making the slack in the cam gears click. Its no biggy. Don't count the # of needle turns, judge the needle setting purely by the way the engine runs and responds, if its burning 2 oz a minute the Low Speed needle is too rich.

AJsToyz

Hobbsy,

How did the Super Tigre diesel run , just curious ...

Andy

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

It runs very well, it was old and tired when I bought it so I have newer one that I need some more glow time on. then will convert to Diesel. The old one turns a 14x7 3 blade in the 8,800 to 9,000 rpm range.

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

Johan,
I meant both with little fuel (lean) and high rpm(full throttle). But you say it has fuel all over the outside makes me think you are not running it lean or with little fuel. Some Saitos are more wet on the outside than others. Being wet on the outside doesn't hurt the engine but it does make a mess to clean up. The black in the muffler pressure line doesn't seem to hurt them either.

JimO

My Feedback: (7)

Suggestions for smoke on Saito 91. I have an Air Tractor 502 and would like to add smoke. Looking at the Sullivan pump system for the plumbing, just need suggestion for the muffler.

JimO
Saito Member 604

rlmcnii

My Feedback: (3)

Johan,

If you have not yet tuned, that is leaned, this engine, do so. A Saito running with factory needle settings makes a terrible mess when it runs. The factory needle settings are VERY RICH and the engine just gets rid of all the excess oil and fuel in the exhaust, from the crankcase vent, and anywhere else it can leak out.

Tune this engine up and see if it does not run much more cleanly.

kiosk

My Feedback: (14)

looking for a header for a Saito FG36....I have on H9 P51 150 but its way too quiet for wardbird.....any tips?

Vince J

My Feedback: (1)

Gentlemen,

I just received the rocker arm screw and nut assembly for the SAITO .45 mark II. I must thank you all for your help but I took the easy way out. I called Horizon Hobbies and they have manuals that cross check all the parts and they found what I needed.

Now comes the embarrassing part. What does one do EXACTLY to set the the valves. I haven't set valves in over 40 years and I plum forgot how to set up for the adjustments. I think I used to do something with Top Dead Center but I see no timing marks anywhere. Are there written instructions for setting the valves in the model four strokers? I've completely forgotten what to do other than pushing the feeler gauge between the Rocker arm screw and the pushrod.

Had a time with Rexracer's dimensions on the feeler gauge until I realized the manual as talking in metric and Rexracer was giving me the size in SAE.

balsaeater

Just got back from the LHS after getting fuel tubing which now I am fairly certian I wont need .
The LHS figures The new fuel triggered the problems and changing the fuel back to the original Zero nitro fuel for awhile longer until the engine is more run in will solve my problems .

The oil ratio at ~15% ( oil is very expensive in Europe as it is the ESTER family not avasilable in the USA and run in engines of many makes will often drop to ~10% oil in Europe to make running costs lower ) and the 10% nitro adding extra power has probably triggered a soft seize situation

cures are decreasing size of prop or decreasing nitro or bumping up the oil to sort out the issue

This soft seize syndrom the LHS has encountered is more often seen with other makes of pattern engines such as YS when going below 20% lube until at least 4 gallons UK gallons (5 USA gallons )has gone through the motor

It fits with my short run of a few minutes at home with the 20% oil no nitro fuel no showed no signs of issues
Stupid me I then changed the fuel to ~15% oil ~10% figuring that the engine should be run in eneogh to cope with lower oil as the flying is mostly 1/3 gas with a few seconds of full gas just for punch out
The soft seize would happen faster on full gas and take longer on mid gas so it fits the logic given from LHS

I should have done tests at home before changing things and then I would have spotted a issue changed back to old fuel and probably seen no issues and have gone of flying with no problems

Live and learn

When the engine has done 4 gallons I will look to fiddle with the slow jet with some expert help as I am not mechanically great for tuning abilities so as to improve fuel consumption but on 1/3 gas at say 1 onz a minute is economically OK as the plane is a light weight ~4kg (~10lbs ) 54 inch Graupner 22% Ultimate meant for a more modest ~120 so on a Saito 180 is grossly overpowered and makes jaw dropping punch outs and can fly on 1/6 gas or less

Boy was I glad today on two counts that I bought the Saito 180 new from the LHS

A guy who I knew in a nearby club wandered into the LHS where i was buying bits and bobs and told me the so called never used new in the box Saito he was selling last year for bit less than the LHS price had actually done two flights and crashed on the second flight from 400 feet

He was pleased to inform me he had sold it off in the end to some hapless guy in the UK

So being suspicious of the club advert I ignored this lower price engine and bought new instead from the LHS and was able to get support

Today the LHS support has probably saved me a lot of leg work to sort out the sagging problem

So for now I will go for the old fuel formula zero nitro for another gallon and then for another few gallons use Becral 20% nitro /20% synth oil /no castor before trying out the lowwer oil combos

balsaeater

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

Vince,

Find the compression stroke and have the piston at top dead center.

Vince J

My Feedback: (1)

W8yte,

Thanks for the information especially having it shown in pictures. I'm on my way into the basement and put your information to use now.

VinceJ

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

Balsa Eater

Be sure and adjust your needle valves for proper running with each type fuel

Enjoy