mike109

G'day Thanks mate. I am starting to feel a bit better. It has been 5 days so far. Hope to get out for some Saito interaction on Sunday.

I did find this excellent small model flying site at Brasenose College, Oxford University. Sadly, you can't walk on the grass but it would make a very fine small field for small electrics or control line. I think my friend The Dean would be less than impressed.

ram3500-RCU

My Feedback: (221)

Sorry to change the subject for a moment, but do you know Forest Barber? I noticed where you are from. He taught me how to fly full scale. What a nice guy and a fine pilot. I have 8 hrs in his T-Craft.

w8ye

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I'm sorry but I do not believe I know him?

I was a flight instructor myself but I never had the pleasure.

I know a guy with a Taylorcraft down near Homer OH but that's it.

Rudolph Hart

Hi texas that beetle looks like the handbrakes(whyfee's) pet dog,powered by a 220 of course..

OldFart1

Grettings from LAX

I've put a fresh Saito .72 in my Sig Mayhem 40 (fresh because the well worn Saito .72 was on my Buck Rogers when it encountered a "localized gravity storm")

I'm having an issue getting it to idle - as in it won't below 2800-3000 RPM (and "hunts" at the lower end of that range). High speed needle wound up 1-3/4 turns out - pulls hard on a 12x6 APC. Playing with the low speed screw I can get great transition - but no low idle.

One thing that the guy who rebuilt the motor brought to my attention was my fuel. As all my other glow motors are YS - I run 30% Coolpower. The Saito ran great on this before - but as he pointed out the motor is a lot tighter now.

Also - what's the critical dimension from the spray bar centerline to the tank?

Thanks!

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

With your plane I'd say C/L to C/L tank to needle

Maybe it will loosen up?

OldFart1

Possibly. I know my YS120 was a little tight as far as low end when it was rebuilt - but no where near this bad. I've talked with enough folks who also run 30% on Saitos that I'm doubting that is the problem.

Historically - where does this motor have problems with vacuum leaks? (several have suggested that is my problem)

w8ye

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They leak where the intake goes into the head

It is caused by a flexing backplate

ram3500-RCU

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He owns Barber Field and sponsors a T-Craft reunion each year. It is kind of T-Craft central. His Dad worked at the factory building them.

ram3500-RCU

My Feedback: (221)

Sounds like it may be a low adjustment issue. Try backing the low needle out to flush with the plastic arm. Adjust the high end at this rich setting. Then start adjusting the low end for a good idle speed. The top end will need tweaked as well. I keep the supply line as short and as in line with the inlet as possible. I use 15% nitro in all my Saitos.

w8ye

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My wife flew me over there one day back in 1967before we were married. I saw a lot of planes that I had never seen before. She had gone to college with someone that worked there. I think that was where I saw the first Myer's OTW I had ever seen was at Alliance? I had met the guy before at Southern IL University. Showed us all around and all the different planes. I cannot remember his name anymore and my wife died 12 years ago.

ram3500-RCU

My Feedback: (221)

Sorry about your Wife. If you have a chance to visit Barber Field in Alliance again, visit the Balsa Bees located at the East end of the Airport. A great bunch, and many Saitos in use.

PS Their giant scale fly in is tomorrow (Saturday). I will be there with my P-38. The TurboHeaders came in the mail from RC Specialists and they look great. I can't get them in for tomorrow, but hope to have them in and be posting a video with sound in a few days.

w8ye

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You will like the Turbo HeadersI got one yesterday for the Saito 125

PacificNWSkyPilot

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Truthfully I've never found the centerline from the tank to the carb or closeness to be an issue, and I've run tanks high, low, close and far away. I often curl lines around and always put filters in the fuel line. I used Wildcat in my Saitos before but have found the Powermaster YS/Saito 20/20 mix to be really, really good, much better in fact. What I HAVE found is a problem with fuel dots that have spring loaded valves in them. The Saitos suck air into the fuel line thru them, and it screws up the transition and sometimes the idle. I use the solid-plug type Hangar 9 (I think?) dot these days, it eliminates that as an issue.
That being said, this DOES NOT sound like an air leak. Air leaks in the fuel may screw up the high or low end, but they FOR SURE always screw up the transition, especially rapid transition. The engine asks for more fuel and sucks air bubbles instead. Yours has strong transition. A leak in the backplate could be possible, but it sounds like it's running too well otherwise, so I'd push that idea/possibility aside for now. See if somebody will lend you a tankfull of the 20/20 Powermaster to try out. This baby may simply be too tight to be running on that high of a nitro content, especially at idle. It might be heating up at idle due to the high nitro content. Heat and tight =tries to die on you.

I'm also in agreement with Ram3500 that you may simply need a new starting point for the idle mixture screw, and OUT is also what I'd say to start with. Out to the edge of the plastic might be a little far, but that's probably better than what you have now, richer seems to be what it wants. It told you this when it gave you great transition even though it has a poor idle. It wants a richer idle to start with. If not it would fall on its face when you transitioned. Instead, it LIKES the increase in fuel.

Remember, start by CAREFULLY screwing both needles in until they stop, counting the turns and the exact position they were in before you started playing with it.. That way, if everything else screws up, you can go right back to square one and no harm done by fooling around with it.
Then back out the idle mixture screw some and try working the high-end needle with that richer idle.

Good luck! Let us know how it's going.

Jim

WarbirdII

My Feedback: (21)

Hey Guys

This is to cool, I love the Saito motors. I am the proud owner of the following sizes 60ts, 82, 90ts 2-91, 2-125, 150, 180, 220. All the engines are not on plans any more some of the plans have been sold or gone to the field in the sky. But I kept all the engines and they all still are in working order. The two TS are my favorites they sound so cool running.
When at the field and starting any one of the Saito's the just start so easy my typical line after they start is. It's a Saito. The 60 Ts was on the cub but I wanted some more power so I put the 90ts on my Cub, the 125 is on the P6E Hawk, the other 125 is on my Harrier, the 91 is on m stick, the 180 is on the Sterman but I am swapping that one out for the 220.

Long live Saito!!!!!!

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

I like my 60T and 90TS also. They sound cool. Quick revving and smooth running as an electric motor

blw

My Feedback: (3)

Warbird- you are Saito club member #645

OldFart1

[/quote]

Truthfully I've never found the centerline from the tank to the carb or closeness to be an issue, and I've run tanks high, low, close and far away. I often curl lines around and always put filters in the fuel line. I used Wildcat in my Saitos before but have found the Powermaster YS/Saito 20/20 mix to be really, really good, much better in fact. What I HAVE found is a problem with fuel dots that have spring loaded valves in them. The Saitos suck air into the fuel line thru them, and it screws up the transition and sometimes the idle. I use the solid-plug type Hangar 9 (I think?) dot these days, it eliminates that as an issue.
That being said, this DOES NOT sound like an air leak. Air leaks in the fuel may screw up the high or low end, but they FOR SURE always screw up the transition, especially rapid transition. The engine asks for more fuel and sucks air bubbles instead. Yours has strong transition. A leak in the backplate could be possible, but it sounds like it's running too well otherwise, so I'd push that idea/possibility aside for now. See if somebody will lend you a tankfull of the 20/20 Powermaster to try out. This baby may simply be too tight to be running on that high of a nitro content, especially at idle. It might be heating up at idle due to the high nitro content. Heat and tight =tries to die on you.

I'm also in agreement with Ram3500 that you may simply need a new starting point for the idle mixture screw, and OUT is also what I'd say to start with. Out to the edge of the plastic might be a little far, but that's probably better than what you have now, richer seems to be what it wants. It told you this when it gave you great transition even though it has a poor idle. It wants a richer idle to start with. If not it would fall on its face when you transitioned. Instead, it LIKES the increase in fuel.

Remember, start by CAREFULLY screwing both needles in until they stop, counting the turns and the exact position they were in before you started playing with it.. That way, if everything else screws up, you can go right back to square one and no harm done by fooling around with it.
Then back out the idle mixture screw some and try working the high-end needle with that richer idle.

Good luck! Let us know how it's going.

Jim
[/quote]

Thanks Jim

Well - last night I lit a nice Rocky Patel and played a bit with it. Checked the backplate and carb - slight tweak on the carb screws but not much to tighten. Pulled it off and checked the tube - seemed like the new o-ring to the carb wasn't as tight as I remember other motors being, so I swapped in another one.

Looked at the low end screw - it was "way" screwed in from "flush with the plastic" (maybe 3 turns or more" - so reset it fluh and bolted the motor back in.

She idles! Not as low as I'd like - but low enough to taxi the plane without it sprinting away I think - I'll know tomorrow. Could have been the o-ring, could have been the low end setting (could have been the cigar)

One thing I'll definately be doing after tomorrow is installing a dedicated feed line. Right now the fuel dot is just "T'd" in the carb line, it floods the carb pretty well when I'm filling. Didn't feel like carving out the rear tank block at 2300L last night.

Jeff/LAX

PacificNWSkyPilot

My Feedback: (19)

Good work!

Remember that it has to break in to be able to acheive the best idle.

I've got less than a gallon through my Saito 100 right now and as of the 6th tank full I could pull the idle down fairly dependably to a VERY slow; Putt........Putt.......Putt.......Putt..... in fact, it's hard to kill it after a flight!

Once you get that ol' girl broken in and dialed in you're gonna have a real sweety of a 4-stroke.

Once Saito, you never go back!

Err....somethin' like that.

Jim

PS....The Rocky Patel cigar probably helped a little....it sure couldn't hurt! BUT....Watch the burning stuff around the fuel! You won't like it if loose fuel ignites, methanol alcohol burns with a very hot, almost invisible flame. Gets out of hand REALLY fast.

OldFart1

I intend to put many, many tanks of fuel through the little Mayhem - I'm "practicing" for my 50cc Ultimate Bipe that's about 50% done right now.

I hear you on the cigar/fuel - but I have that down pat. Now, not putting 12x8E props into my forearm, THAT I had a problem with - once

WarbirdII

My Feedback: (21)

Here is a picture of the 60TS on my cub, need to get one with the 90TS you are correct sir the engine runs so nice. Quality in a sweet package.[img][/img]

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

The 60T and 90TS engines are the smoothest running engines I have.

This comes at a sacrifice. These engines have 7 ball bearings in them with 4 of the bearings in blind pockets.

To take one apart and put it back together is almost like taking a half a real light airplane engine apart and reassembling it.

The rods have caps. The cylinders have to be pulled and the crankshaft put in an exact postion to get each rod cap off.

Reassembly requires a lot of thought as to just how to get the rod cap back on in the correct orientation.

But the engines start so easy and run so nice.

AircamperAce

My Feedback: (11)

What are the chances I can pull a Saito .65 off the bottom of a marsh/swamp/pond with a magnet? It's got to be down there (8') somwhere. The motor mount snapped in half and took the engine, cowl and prop down with it. I'm thinking about getting a magnet from Home Depot, the kind used for picking up nails, and fishing for it that way. The entire area is swampy, even the grassy stuff is in +2 ft of water. Is there enough steel in the engine to pick it up? The plane was recovered from the swamp, minus engine. Where I am at in the picture it's atleast 8' deep. We tried using a rake but the bottom is thick weeds. Any tips?

Ryan

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

It will take a lot of trying.

The crankshaft and prop nuts/mounting bolts are steel

joelsrarch99

I Have A Saito 82 Fa That Was Sent Back To Horizon Hobby For Repair. It Was New Out Of the Box And Was Broke In Per Instructions. Dont know What the problem Was But it Would Run For A Little While And Stop,Try To Retart And it would kick back Pretty Hard. Would not Start Till It cooled Down. This Went On Till I Got Fed Up With It. Did Any Of You Guys Out There Have This Kind Of Problem?