Welcome to Club SAITO !
02-11-2006, 12:29 AM
#1601
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Ranger:
What you brought up was the replacement elements, the filter itself is here:
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...?ProdID=BRU202
But do get at least a couple spare elements also. When one gets dirty slip one of the spares in, then later wash the one you took out. They can be washed an indefinite number of times.
Bill.
What you brought up was the replacement elements, the filter itself is here:
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...?ProdID=BRU202
But do get at least a couple spare elements also. When one gets dirty slip one of the spares in, then later wash the one you took out. They can be washed an indefinite number of times.
Bill.
02-11-2006, 12:35 AM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Ranger:
Assuming you mean at 135 degrees, 45 degrees below horizontal. The tank center should be level or slightly below the center POINT of the carb. This holds for mouting at any angle. The centerpoint of the carb is the reference.
Bill.
...inverted at a 45 degree angle...
Bill.
02-11-2006, 08:52 AM
#1604
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
JLK,
I noticed the strange value for Pi in SLJ213....'s calculation of the displacement of a Saito 1.00 also. However, if you read the post carefully, you will notice that he squared the bore (diameter), not the radius of the bore. When squaring the diameter of a circle (bore) the resultant number will always be four times that of the square of the radius of the same circle. dxd = d squared, .5dx.5d = .25 d squared. .5d being, of course, the radius (of the bore, in this case)
He then multiplies d squared by the stroke (height of the cylinder) and then multipleis by .7854. As it turns out, .7854 is .25Pi. By using .7854, rather than Pi, he removes the factor of four introduced by squaring the diameter of the bore instead of the radius of the bore.
It works, but I wonder where he learned to do that??? Maybe an old machinist's trick, or something??
BTW, your first impulse was correct; it is 1.04.... CUBIC INCHES, not CUBIC CENTIMETERS. The bore and stroke figures provided by WR are in inches, not centimeters. The product is in Cu.In., not CC.
All this conversion of cc's to ci's gets to be very confusing!!!!!!!!!!!!
I noticed the strange value for Pi in SLJ213....'s calculation of the displacement of a Saito 1.00 also. However, if you read the post carefully, you will notice that he squared the bore (diameter), not the radius of the bore. When squaring the diameter of a circle (bore) the resultant number will always be four times that of the square of the radius of the same circle. dxd = d squared, .5dx.5d = .25 d squared. .5d being, of course, the radius (of the bore, in this case)
He then multiplies d squared by the stroke (height of the cylinder) and then multipleis by .7854. As it turns out, .7854 is .25Pi. By using .7854, rather than Pi, he removes the factor of four introduced by squaring the diameter of the bore instead of the radius of the bore.
It works, but I wonder where he learned to do that??? Maybe an old machinist's trick, or something??
BTW, your first impulse was correct; it is 1.04.... CUBIC INCHES, not CUBIC CENTIMETERS. The bore and stroke figures provided by WR are in inches, not centimeters. The product is in Cu.In., not CC.
All this conversion of cc's to ci's gets to be very confusing!!!!!!!!!!!!
02-11-2006, 01:41 PM
#1607
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
How about subtracting by adding nine's complement?
Old computer tricks. Addition and multiplication are easy, division and subtraction are not.
Bill.
Old computer tricks. Addition and multiplication are easy, division and subtraction are not.
Bill.
02-11-2006, 02:21 PM
#1608
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
The formula that I have used since 1971 was learned at Highland College in Freeport, Ill where I studied Automotive Technology. It has always worked for me!
ORIGINAL: rlmcnii
JLK,
I noticed the strange value for Pi in SLJ213....'s calculation of the displacement of a Saito 1.00 also. However, if you read the post carefully, you will notice that he squared the bore (diameter), not the radius of the bore. When squaring the diameter of a circle (bore) the resultant number will always be four times that of the square of the radius of the same circle. dxd = d squared, .5dx.5d = .25 d squared. .5d being, of course, the radius (of the bore, in this case)
He then multiplies d squared by the stroke (height of the cylinder) and then multipleis by .7854. As it turns out, .7854 is .25Pi. By using .7854, rather than Pi, he removes the factor of four introduced by squaring the diameter of the bore instead of the radius of the bore.
It works, but I wonder where he learned to do that??? Maybe an old machinist's trick, or something??
BTW, your first impulse was correct; it is 1.04.... CUBIC INCHES, not CUBIC CENTIMETERS. The bore and stroke figures provided by WR are in inches, not centimeters. The product is in Cu.In., not CC.
All this conversion of cc's to ci's gets to be very confusing!!!!!!!!!!!!
JLK,
I noticed the strange value for Pi in SLJ213....'s calculation of the displacement of a Saito 1.00 also. However, if you read the post carefully, you will notice that he squared the bore (diameter), not the radius of the bore. When squaring the diameter of a circle (bore) the resultant number will always be four times that of the square of the radius of the same circle. dxd = d squared, .5dx.5d = .25 d squared. .5d being, of course, the radius (of the bore, in this case)
He then multiplies d squared by the stroke (height of the cylinder) and then multipleis by .7854. As it turns out, .7854 is .25Pi. By using .7854, rather than Pi, he removes the factor of four introduced by squaring the diameter of the bore instead of the radius of the bore.
It works, but I wonder where he learned to do that??? Maybe an old machinist's trick, or something??
BTW, your first impulse was correct; it is 1.04.... CUBIC INCHES, not CUBIC CENTIMETERS. The bore and stroke figures provided by WR are in inches, not centimeters. The product is in Cu.In., not CC.
All this conversion of cc's to ci's gets to be very confusing!!!!!!!!!!!!
02-11-2006, 02:27 PM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Hi all. I have been flying and totally enjoying my Saito engines for about four years now ( .91S ,.72 , 100 ). The .91 is my oldest and by far has the most time on it. The other evening I was looking at a number of posts mostly to do with setting valve clearance and after decided to do a check on my engines which are idle for the long Ontario winter. After adjusting the valves on the .91 I had a look through the glow hole with a light and noticed a bit of scoring on the portion of the wall that I could see.I am wondering if a bit of scoring is normal after about 200 flights or should the walls still be like new? The engine is a wonderful performer that has never given me trouble. I have been using 15% Helli CoolPower and a tack to set top rpm.
Thanks P.J
Thanks P.J
02-11-2006, 02:58 PM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Jim if I have damage to the crome walls would it look like scoring or would the crome look flaked or chipped .
I would also like to thank all those who have contributed so much time and info. to this great thread.
P.J
I would also like to thank all those who have contributed so much time and info. to this great thread.
P.J
02-11-2006, 03:00 PM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Hi all, I have a new Satio 100, I have been told when brakeing in the engine use a prop. that I plan on useing to fly with, ok no problem with that, what I like to know can I use a 3 blaide prop. for engine brake in? Or stick with a 2 blaide first?
The engine is going in my Yak-54
Dennis
The engine is going in my Yak-54
Dennis
02-11-2006, 03:54 PM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
PJ:
As Jim says, visual score marks are not to be worried about.
Another matter - We have member number 89 with a user name of "peejay," is this you? If yes I'll change the listing, if not tell me and I'll assign you a different number.
Bill.
As Jim says, visual score marks are not to be worried about.
Another matter - We have member number 89 with a user name of "peejay," is this you? If yes I'll change the listing, if not tell me and I'll assign you a different number.
Bill.
02-11-2006, 04:05 PM
#1614
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
SLJ2137694
Thanks for the reply. Your formula works fine, I had just never seen the volume of a cylinder calculated in such a manner. It saves one from dividing the bore by two, so you can just plug in numbers from an engine's spec sheet. It also saves one from remembering the numerical value of Pi in return for remembering .7854. An even trade, I think...
Thanks for the reply. Your formula works fine, I had just never seen the volume of a cylinder calculated in such a manner. It saves one from dividing the bore by two, so you can just plug in numbers from an engine's spec sheet. It also saves one from remembering the numerical value of Pi in return for remembering .7854. An even trade, I think...
02-11-2006, 04:24 PM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Dennis:
Nothing wrong with using a three or even four bladed prop for break in, so long as it is in the right load range for the engine. All the engine sees is the load, and the only other thing the engine cares about while running is air flow for cooling. Doesn't matter how many blades are blowing the wind.
Bill.
Nothing wrong with using a three or even four bladed prop for break in, so long as it is in the right load range for the engine. All the engine sees is the load, and the only other thing the engine cares about while running is air flow for cooling. Doesn't matter how many blades are blowing the wind.
Bill.
02-11-2006, 04:44 PM
#1616
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ORIGINAL: desmobob
Thanks Jack... it's good to feel loved! she may be the test pilot when I maiden my CMP P-40E the new Saito 1.50 is going in.
To keep things on topic -Saito- AND to try to one-up Torque on the fancy-smancy test stands, get a look at THIS bad boy!
This is my first model engine test stand. Guess what it's made from? My father's old shoe-shine box!!! I put bricks in the side "pockets" and mounted a fuel tank on top. An adjustable engine mount is screwed to the end (and I did use a screwdriver to put the screws in; how's that for high-tech!)
Read 'em and weep, Torque Wrench!
I'm having too much silly fun with this thread. I better go to bed!
Good flying,
desmobob
Thanks Jack... it's good to feel loved! she may be the test pilot when I maiden my CMP P-40E the new Saito 1.50 is going in.
To keep things on topic -Saito- AND to try to one-up Torque on the fancy-smancy test stands, get a look at THIS bad boy!
This is my first model engine test stand. Guess what it's made from? My father's old shoe-shine box!!! I put bricks in the side "pockets" and mounted a fuel tank on top. An adjustable engine mount is screwed to the end (and I did use a screwdriver to put the screws in; how's that for high-tech!)
Read 'em and weep, Torque Wrench!
I'm having too much silly fun with this thread. I better go to bed!
Good flying,
desmobob
Does Big Brother have a problem with cat references? My post has been edited to remove mention of my cat and her photo removed with no communication or explanation to me. I really don't care for that type of thing. Maybe it's time to ditch this forum.
Good flying,
desmobob
02-11-2006, 07:40 PM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
>>> you should be able to cut the fuel rate of your FA-65 by about 40% With an intake stack and a Bru-Line fine mesh air filter >>>
Someone here at RCU came up with the idea to clamp part of a rubber exhaust deflector onto the Saito intake stack for a little more length. It sounds like a good alternative to me if you don't have the Bru Line air filter handy...? Could there even be a "tuned length"?
Ernie
Someone here at RCU came up with the idea to clamp part of a rubber exhaust deflector onto the Saito intake stack for a little more length. It sounds like a good alternative to me if you don't have the Bru Line air filter handy...? Could there even be a "tuned length"?
Ernie
02-11-2006, 07:56 PM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Ernie:
Yes, there could indeed. But...
A tuned exhaust is pretty easy because we only have to worry about the pressure waves at the exhaust valve. With fuel injection again we only worry about the pressure waves at the intake valve.
With a carb another monkey pops up to bother us - the spray bar. Not only does the protrusion of the spray bar interfere with the wave travel, there are speeds at which the positive wave is going to be there when it's supposed to suck fuel, and instead it pushes the fuel back out and the engine goes lean.
Run some experiments anyway, let us know your results.
Bill.
ORIGINAL: Ernie Misner
...Could there even be a "tuned length"?
...Could there even be a "tuned length"?
A tuned exhaust is pretty easy because we only have to worry about the pressure waves at the exhaust valve. With fuel injection again we only worry about the pressure waves at the intake valve.
With a carb another monkey pops up to bother us - the spray bar. Not only does the protrusion of the spray bar interfere with the wave travel, there are speeds at which the positive wave is going to be there when it's supposed to suck fuel, and instead it pushes the fuel back out and the engine goes lean.
Run some experiments anyway, let us know your results.
Bill.
02-11-2006, 07:58 PM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
And on Jim's comment - tuned lengths on four stroke engines are twice as long as for a two stroke at the same rpm. They just get too long to be practical.
Bill.
Bill.
02-11-2006, 08:47 PM
#1622
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ORIGINAL: William Robison
Ranger:
Assuming you mean at 135 degrees, 45 degrees below horizontal. The tank center should be level or slightly below the center POINT of the carb. This holds for mouting at any angle. The centerpoint of the carb is the reference.
Bill.
Ranger:
...inverted at a 45 degree angle...
Bill.
Bill, it could be 135 degrees but it could be read so many different ways depending on which religion you're in (math/engineer) but I think you explained it pretty good.
I have a problem with my 91 low idle which is mounted around 165 degrees. When I have the cowl off it seems to cool down and then dies. Is this normal? It will idle around 2000 rpm for about 10 seconds the sputter and die.
I've checked the valves and while idling about 2800 rpm I pinched the fuel and when it increased RPM I then leaned it, then it died right off so I went just a couple of degrees back to rich till I got it just below the RPM increase state. Now it just hovers a bit and dies...is that right?
I ordered 3 velocity stacks and some filters so I will let you know if it fits the Saito 125s (ones for the plane I'm building my brother).
I'm afraid I have too much mechanical advantage on the throttle arm though...thoughts...thanks, Tim.
02-11-2006, 09:12 PM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Tim:
The three biggest reasons for not being able to get a good idle are an intake air leak, the tank is too low, or three, the engine just doesn't have enough running time to idle well;
With the tank too low the engine, running at a low speed just doesn't have enough suction to maintain the fuel flow. an air leak makes it that much harder for the engine to pull the fuel. Low time? You know how to correct that.
And yes, the spray bar is the reference point for tank height.
Bill.
The three biggest reasons for not being able to get a good idle are an intake air leak, the tank is too low, or three, the engine just doesn't have enough running time to idle well;
With the tank too low the engine, running at a low speed just doesn't have enough suction to maintain the fuel flow. an air leak makes it that much harder for the engine to pull the fuel. Low time? You know how to correct that.
And yes, the spray bar is the reference point for tank height.
Bill.
02-13-2006, 09:24 PM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
All:
Just got a PM:
Guess I didn't make it plain. With true fuel injetion the intake can be tuned just as the exhaust can. But it's a fairly narrow rpm band, and unless you always keep the rpm close to that band the tuning often works against you. Reverse cones and expansion chambers don't work on the intake.
Then with a carb having all the bits sticking in the air flow it's just frustration.
Best just to ensure the air flow and use the stack and air filter to keep the inside of the cowl clean, one, and improve the fuel economy, two.
Bill.
Just got a PM:
In post #1560, Ernie Misner is asking if there is a specfic length for (intake) velocity stacks. In yours and other's replies you are talking (exhaust) tuned pipes. Did I miss something here or is this a misunderstanding? I just got a velocity stack and o ring for my Saito 100 and was wandering what you might have to say about the length of the intake velocity stack?
Then with a carb having all the bits sticking in the air flow it's just frustration.
Best just to ensure the air flow and use the stack and air filter to keep the inside of the cowl clean, one, and improve the fuel economy, two.
Bill.