Welcome to Club SAITO !
07-29-2010, 09:47 PM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ORIGINAL: w8ye
P-47
Getting valves out of a used cylinder is a real P.I.T.A. The top edges of the valve stems and the top edges of the retainer ring groove get a flashing on them and the valve will not go down through the guide. In some cases, it is difficult to even get the spring retainer off the valve. You have to go in there with a riffle file and try to get the flashing off the valve stem. You will spend an hour on each valve just trying to get it out of the head without scratching the valve guide.
On a broken head this is not too bad for you can drive the valve down through the guide and clean up the stems with the valves out of the heads. Goes a lot easier.
You best just try your luck with cleaning the valve stems through the ports. The intake stem is usually clean.
P-47
Getting valves out of a used cylinder is a real P.I.T.A. The top edges of the valve stems and the top edges of the retainer ring groove get a flashing on them and the valve will not go down through the guide. In some cases, it is difficult to even get the spring retainer off the valve. You have to go in there with a riffle file and try to get the flashing off the valve stem. You will spend an hour on each valve just trying to get it out of the head without scratching the valve guide.
On a broken head this is not too bad for you can drive the valve down through the guide and clean up the stems with the valves out of the heads. Goes a lot easier.
You best just try your luck with cleaning the valve stems through the ports. The intake stem is usually clean.
07-29-2010, 10:01 PM
Senior Member
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
I know this is of topic but please can someone help? I have a saito 125 with less then a half of a gallon threw it and it runs like a top. But the tiny tip on top of the push rod fell out of the little cup it goes in on the adj screw on the rocker arm?? I check it with a feeler and it right on. But when you push down on the valve spring it falls out again. Does any body understand what is going on here???? Thank you for your time Eric
07-29-2010, 11:30 PM
Senior Member
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
I know that but why would it fall out in the first place?????????? That was what started all of this no compression. Then took the covers off and found that, put it back and runs purfect. Trying to find out why it would fall out. I don't think I worded that other post right.
07-29-2010, 11:42 PM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
The only things I can think of are either damage to the tip of the pushrod, damage to the cup on the rocker arm, or the valve lagged enough to become unseated.
07-29-2010, 11:42 PM
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
The valve is sticky and remained open for an instant once and the push rod fell out.
Put some oil around the valve stem and work the valve up and down some. The pushrod will fall out again but you can put it back in when you are done working the oil into the valve stem.
Put some oil around the valve stem and work the valve up and down some. The pushrod will fall out again but you can put it back in when you are done working the oil into the valve stem.
07-30-2010, 07:40 AM
Senior Member
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ORIGINAL: w8ye
What we are shooting for is that the valve overlap interval is to cross over TDC on the overlap stroke. But if the cam is set with the dot at 6:00 and the crank pin is straight up then from my experience, the exact point where both valves are cracked open a slight amount (the same amount level across the rocker arms) is slightly before TDC and not exactly on TDC.
This over lap is the period where booth valves are open a little bit even though one may be open more than the other. This band actually covers some 25 degrees? It will vary by your valve clearance settings. You can see the range of it by blowing in the exhaust with the carb open and observing the air coming out the carb during the overlap period.
The Saito has more teeth on the cam gear than the Y-S, OS, Magnum, ASP, SC etc so one tooth off may be hard to figure out? On the other engines, you can pull the cam cover off and see where the cam is.
I had a ASP 120 that would only turn a 15 X 6 good. It was sick with a 15 X 8. I looked at the cam and it was one tooth advanced. I set the cam back one tooth and that engine screams with a 15 X 8. Saitos are not so drastic being 1 tooth off and will still run pretty good but they run best when set correctly.
The way the logic goes, if you are advanced one tooth, the idle is great but you loose the ability to swing an inch of prop.
If you are retarded one tooth, the top end is great but it will not idle worth a toot.
ORIGINAL: mike early
I always assumed the dots were lined up with the crank pin and centerline of the cam shaft lobes. From what you are saying, the cam is meant to be advanced a bit. Perfectly understandable, I've degreed cams in my Small Block Ford many times. Even have a cam wheel and dial caliper, etc for this procedure.
You've mentioned this before. My apparently retarded (no pun!) situation yield a great idle, but gives up top end, I think you've said. I had forgotten that. But I don't think I've replaced any bearings since I read your post, and since forgotten. I am glad you reminded me. I got plenty of room on the idle to give away. It idles at 1500 with a 16x10x3blade. 2000 would be fine.
I didn't get a chance to pick up the bearings from the LHS today. I'll install them tomorrow night and take a photo of the crank-pin through the open back plate when both valves are open the exact same amount. I''ll shoot for 1 tooth BTDC.
Where did hear about the 5º advanced? I guess if you are positive the dots are lined up, and that's what it turns out to be, it's self-evident. But I can never be sure where them damn dots end up after I've slid everything together.....
I always assumed the dots were lined up with the crank pin and centerline of the cam shaft lobes. From what you are saying, the cam is meant to be advanced a bit. Perfectly understandable, I've degreed cams in my Small Block Ford many times. Even have a cam wheel and dial caliper, etc for this procedure.
You've mentioned this before. My apparently retarded (no pun!) situation yield a great idle, but gives up top end, I think you've said. I had forgotten that. But I don't think I've replaced any bearings since I read your post, and since forgotten. I am glad you reminded me. I got plenty of room on the idle to give away. It idles at 1500 with a 16x10x3blade. 2000 would be fine.
I didn't get a chance to pick up the bearings from the LHS today. I'll install them tomorrow night and take a photo of the crank-pin through the open back plate when both valves are open the exact same amount. I''ll shoot for 1 tooth BTDC.
Where did hear about the 5º advanced? I guess if you are positive the dots are lined up, and that's what it turns out to be, it's self-evident. But I can never be sure where them damn dots end up after I've slid everything together.....
This over lap is the period where booth valves are open a little bit even though one may be open more than the other. This band actually covers some 25 degrees? It will vary by your valve clearance settings. You can see the range of it by blowing in the exhaust with the carb open and observing the air coming out the carb during the overlap period.
The Saito has more teeth on the cam gear than the Y-S, OS, Magnum, ASP, SC etc so one tooth off may be hard to figure out? On the other engines, you can pull the cam cover off and see where the cam is.
I had a ASP 120 that would only turn a 15 X 6 good. It was sick with a 15 X 8. I looked at the cam and it was one tooth advanced. I set the cam back one tooth and that engine screams with a 15 X 8. Saitos are not so drastic being 1 tooth off and will still run pretty good but they run best when set correctly.
The way the logic goes, if you are advanced one tooth, the idle is great but you loose the ability to swing an inch of prop.
If you are retarded one tooth, the top end is great but it will not idle worth a toot.
I have to admit, I am more confused now than ever. But, it seems that you are doing exactly the same thing as I am doing. The timing where both valves are open the exact same amount is, in fact, TDC. It seems to work pretty well.
07-30-2010, 09:23 AM
Senior Member
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ORIGINAL: Cherokee Flyer
In answer to the turboheader question of: is it worth it? IMHO yes.
L.
In answer to the turboheader question of: is it worth it? IMHO yes.
L.
Of course, Turboheader's by RC Specialties are worth it.
My unfortunate comment, made a while back when I was faced with buying 13 turboheaders at one time, just to update my inventory, was made from a financial perspective. No offense to Jim or his products was intended.
Ed Cregger
07-30-2010, 09:41 AM
07-30-2010, 11:13 AM
Senior Member
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
It is a showtime 90 is 4d plane from hanger 9 and I am running a 16x8 and the engine is no where near tacting out she is fat and happy. The plane sits for long times and the valve was getting stuck just like they said and I put little oil in the stem and the tube and worked the drive train and she is working fine. Thanks
07-30-2010, 11:29 AM
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
It would have a lot more vertical with a APC 17 X 4W or even a 16 X 6
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...ProdID=HAN2800
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...ProdID=HAN2800
07-30-2010, 11:33 AM
Senior Member
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Just going by what the little book says that came with the motor. I have a 16x6 never tried it maybe this weekend I will give it a try. Thank you guys. Eric
07-30-2010, 11:34 AM
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
I now have 4 of the Saito 1.25 engines and only use the 17 x 4W, 16 x 4W, and 16 x 6. All run very well on this engine and have goobs of pulling power.
07-30-2010, 03:24 PM
My Feedback: (66)
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
hey that small set screw that hold the cam shaft in can you screw that in all the way to hold the cam in place whicl you set it?
07-30-2010, 04:51 PM
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ORIGINAL: airraptor
hey that small set screw that hold the cam shaft in can you screw that in all the way to hold the cam in place whicl you set it?
hey that small set screw that hold the cam shaft in can you screw that in all the way to hold the cam in place whicl you set it?
07-30-2010, 05:56 PM
My Feedback: (66)
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ok thanks just wondering. that would be good if it did for us guys that want to tinker some maybe i will mod it to do that then. i think i am one tooth off. On the refrerence prop only get 8,400 on 15% normally i get 9,300. it would idle at 1,200 though lol
07-30-2010, 07:40 PM
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ORIGINAL: airraptor
ok thanks just wondering. that would be good if it did for us guys that want to tinker some maybe i will mod it to do that then. i think i am one tooth off. On the refrerence prop only get 8,400 on 15% normally i get 9,300. it would idle at 1,200 though lol
ok thanks just wondering. that would be good if it did for us guys that want to tinker some maybe i will mod it to do that then. i think i am one tooth off. On the refrerence prop only get 8,400 on 15% normally i get 9,300. it would idle at 1,200 though lol
As W8YE asked, keep us informed of your trials and results.
Sincerely,
Richard
07-30-2010, 08:06 PM
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Need some information on fuel. I have always used PowerMaster 15% nitro, 18% oil (synthetic/castor) in all my Saito engines. These include .40A, .82A, 1.00, 1.25 x 3, 1.80, .90TS Twin, and 3.00 Twin. My last visit to my LHS it was suggested that I switch to Cool Power 25% nitro, 18% oil ( don't know if it is a blend or just synthetic or just castor). Any suggestions? Not sure what will happen going from 15% nitro to 25% nitro or why it was suggested. Is there anyone still selling PowerMaster? Are there other brands that might be better?