Welcome to Club SAITO !
08-08-2010, 10:54 AM
My Feedback: (6)
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Grand Junction, Colorado
Posts: 1,484
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
I have many Saito engines and I was just wondering something. For example, I was mounting my Saito 150 on my Ultimate the other day and the prop shaft is short when you have a spinner backplate, prop, double nut/ spinner adaptor. I mean the last nut portion of the spinner adaptor only has about three threads at the most to catch on. IMHO that is not enough. I'm using an APC prop, Tru-Turn spinner and adaptor, all pretty standar stuff. Why, I wonder would a manufacture like Saito go to all the effort to make such a fine engine, yet make their crankshafts so short, knowing that most airplanes that their engines are used on, would use spinners? Even another 1/8" would help.
08-08-2010, 12:03 PM
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: EAST BRUNSWICK, NJ
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
frequent flyer- I have the same problem as you have with a Saiot 91. Tru turn makes an adapter for this problem. I checked their website and found an adapter for a short shaft 150 which has partnumber TT-0822-A. Tru Turn is located in Texas and if you call, they will gladly provide support. Hope this helps you out. By the way, never run these four stroke engines without the double nut set up.
Flashingred
Flashingred
08-08-2010, 07:22 PM
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Indianapolis,
IN
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
I've mounted a saito 72 sideways in an Ultrastick 40, where the center line of the fuel tank is below the carb. but I'm having trouble getting it to idle. If I richen up the low end, it eventually bogs down and shuts down; if I lean it out, it will not idle.
I'm using a 13x6 MA prop, and using Wildcat YS20/20 fuel, OS-F plugs. I use this fuel and plugs on a Saito 52 with no problems, but it is mounted vertically.
I broke this motor in with the same prop and fuel on an engine stand mounted vertically and got it to idle <3K RPM, and the fuel tank centerline was above the carb.
When mounting it sideways in the ultrastick, the mixture was way too rich from its setting from the engine stand and I had to lean it out; however, I have not been able to get the low end tuned in this configuration. With high end needle set to 2.25 turns, and low end set to 2 turns in from flush, it will idle with the glow igniter attached, but will shut down in less than a minute when removed.
Any suggestions?
I've thought about getting a pump, but do perry pumps work in sideways configuration mounted under the motor as I thought they had to be mounted in line with the piston?
I'm using a 13x6 MA prop, and using Wildcat YS20/20 fuel, OS-F plugs. I use this fuel and plugs on a Saito 52 with no problems, but it is mounted vertically.
I broke this motor in with the same prop and fuel on an engine stand mounted vertically and got it to idle <3K RPM, and the fuel tank centerline was above the carb.
When mounting it sideways in the ultrastick, the mixture was way too rich from its setting from the engine stand and I had to lean it out; however, I have not been able to get the low end tuned in this configuration. With high end needle set to 2.25 turns, and low end set to 2 turns in from flush, it will idle with the glow igniter attached, but will shut down in less than a minute when removed.
Any suggestions?
I've thought about getting a pump, but do perry pumps work in sideways configuration mounted under the motor as I thought they had to be mounted in line with the piston?
08-08-2010, 08:13 PM
Senior Member
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
One can use a Higley Lock Nut. It's thin. The tru-turn stuff is inter-locking, but that tip can be filed off if desired.
It also takes the place of the washer, saving more threads for you....
Brass or Aluminum
08-08-2010, 08:30 PM
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ORIGINAL: ILv2Xlr8
I've mounted a saito 72 sideways in an Ultrastick 40, where the center line of the fuel tank is below the carb. but I'm having trouble getting it to idle. If I richen up the low end, it eventually bogs down and shuts down; if I lean it out, it will not idle.
I'm using a 13x6 MA prop, and using Wildcat YS20/20 fuel, OS-F plugs. I use this fuel and plugs on a Saito 52 with no problems, but it is mounted vertically.
I broke this motor in with the same prop and fuel on an engine stand mounted vertically and got it to idle <3K RPM, and the fuel tank centerline was above the carb.
When mounting it sideways in the ultrastick, the mixture was way too rich from its setting from the engine stand and I had to lean it out; however, I have not been able to get the low end tuned in this configuration. With high end needle set to 2.25 turns, and low end set to 2 turns in from flush, it will idle with the glow igniter attached, but will shut down in less than a minute when removed.
Any suggestions?
I've thought about getting a pump, but do perry pumps work in sideways configuration mounted under the motor as I thought they had to be mounted in line with the piston?
I've mounted a saito 72 sideways in an Ultrastick 40, where the center line of the fuel tank is below the carb. but I'm having trouble getting it to idle. If I richen up the low end, it eventually bogs down and shuts down; if I lean it out, it will not idle.
I'm using a 13x6 MA prop, and using Wildcat YS20/20 fuel, OS-F plugs. I use this fuel and plugs on a Saito 52 with no problems, but it is mounted vertically.
I broke this motor in with the same prop and fuel on an engine stand mounted vertically and got it to idle <3K RPM, and the fuel tank centerline was above the carb.
When mounting it sideways in the ultrastick, the mixture was way too rich from its setting from the engine stand and I had to lean it out; however, I have not been able to get the low end tuned in this configuration. With high end needle set to 2.25 turns, and low end set to 2 turns in from flush, it will idle with the glow igniter attached, but will shut down in less than a minute when removed.
Any suggestions?
I've thought about getting a pump, but do perry pumps work in sideways configuration mounted under the motor as I thought they had to be mounted in line with the piston?
08-08-2010, 09:37 PM
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Indianapolis,
IN
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ORIGINAL: w8ye
If you have the older style Saito 72 with the plastic back plate, the problem may be the seal of the itake manifold with the head? The plastic flexes and ruins the O ring on the intake manifold at the head.
ORIGINAL: ILv2Xlr8
I've mounted a saito 72 sideways in an Ultrastick 40, where the center line of the fuel tank is below the carb. but I'm having trouble getting it to idle. If I richen up the low end, it eventually bogs down and shuts down; if I lean it out, it will not idle.
I'm using a 13x6 MA prop, and using Wildcat YS20/20 fuel, OS-F plugs. I use this fuel and plugs on a Saito 52 with no problems, but it is mounted vertically.
I broke this motor in with the same prop and fuel on an engine stand mounted vertically and got it to idle <3K RPM, and the fuel tank centerline was above the carb.
When mounting it sideways in the ultrastick, the mixture was way too rich from its setting from the engine stand and I had to lean it out; however, I have not been able to get the low end tuned in this configuration. With high end needle set to 2.25 turns, and low end set to 2 turns in from flush, it will idle with the glow igniter attached, but will shut down in less than a minute when removed.
Any suggestions?
I've thought about getting a pump, but do perry pumps work in sideways configuration mounted under the motor as I thought they had to be mounted in line with the piston?
I've mounted a saito 72 sideways in an Ultrastick 40, where the center line of the fuel tank is below the carb. but I'm having trouble getting it to idle. If I richen up the low end, it eventually bogs down and shuts down; if I lean it out, it will not idle.
I'm using a 13x6 MA prop, and using Wildcat YS20/20 fuel, OS-F plugs. I use this fuel and plugs on a Saito 52 with no problems, but it is mounted vertically.
I broke this motor in with the same prop and fuel on an engine stand mounted vertically and got it to idle <3K RPM, and the fuel tank centerline was above the carb.
When mounting it sideways in the ultrastick, the mixture was way too rich from its setting from the engine stand and I had to lean it out; however, I have not been able to get the low end tuned in this configuration. With high end needle set to 2.25 turns, and low end set to 2 turns in from flush, it will idle with the glow igniter attached, but will shut down in less than a minute when removed.
Any suggestions?
I've thought about getting a pump, but do perry pumps work in sideways configuration mounted under the motor as I thought they had to be mounted in line with the piston?
I'm not sure that would explain why it ran fine on my stand, but not in the Ultrastick. My 72gk is fairly new. Just got it last year. It still has the plastic back plate, but it has reinforcing ribs built into it, not like the older versions.
08-08-2010, 10:08 PM
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Then - -
I would suggest, you go back through and set up your needles again.
Run the low speed back out flush
At full rpm, peak the high speed needle and without richening up the high speed needle, go back to low speed.
Set your low speed as lean as you can get it and still have the engine accelerate when you give it the throttle. When you find the point where the engine will not accelerate, richen the low speed needle out about 1/8 turn.
The go back to you high speed and find the peak again and then richen it up the proper amount
I would suggest, you go back through and set up your needles again.
Run the low speed back out flush
At full rpm, peak the high speed needle and without richening up the high speed needle, go back to low speed.
Set your low speed as lean as you can get it and still have the engine accelerate when you give it the throttle. When you find the point where the engine will not accelerate, richen the low speed needle out about 1/8 turn.
The go back to you high speed and find the peak again and then richen it up the proper amount
08-09-2010, 05:46 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Cairns, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1,053
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
On a totally different manner. Was at "local" club the other day and saw a site to gladden my heart, an FG20 running as you would expect a Saito to. The guy was going to sell given all the problems that have arisen but persisted. Result a good one achieved by following the book. A further point of interest was that it was one serial number after mine, purchased from the same supplier. Now the "good bit" for Ozzies, HHQ has had a program of swapping the early carbs for new ones no charge but it takes a while and the basic difference in the carbs is the needle valve, they are "finer" a problem that can be fixed by the mechanically minded by applying some wet and dry paper to the taper to make the point a tad sharper.
Food for thought nuff said I am off to set up mine for the 1 hours ground run period
Food for thought nuff said I am off to set up mine for the 1 hours ground run period
08-09-2010, 06:12 PM
Senior Member
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ORIGINAL: FNQFLYER
On a totally different manner. Was at ''local'' club the other day and saw a site to gladden my heart, an FG20 running as you would expect a Saito to. The guy was going to sell given all the problems that have arisen but persisted. Result a good one achieved by following the book. A further point of interest was that it was one serial number after mine, purchased from the same supplier. Now the ''good bit'' for Ozzies, HHQ has had a program of swapping the early carbs for new ones no charge but it takes a while and the basic difference in the carbs is the needle valve, they are ''finer'' a problem that can be fixed by the mechanically minded by applying some wet and dry paper to the taper to make the point a tad sharper.
Food for thought nuff said I am off to set up mine for the 1 hours ground run period
On a totally different manner. Was at ''local'' club the other day and saw a site to gladden my heart, an FG20 running as you would expect a Saito to. The guy was going to sell given all the problems that have arisen but persisted. Result a good one achieved by following the book. A further point of interest was that it was one serial number after mine, purchased from the same supplier. Now the ''good bit'' for Ozzies, HHQ has had a program of swapping the early carbs for new ones no charge but it takes a while and the basic difference in the carbs is the needle valve, they are ''finer'' a problem that can be fixed by the mechanically minded by applying some wet and dry paper to the taper to make the point a tad sharper.
Food for thought nuff said I am off to set up mine for the 1 hours ground run period
I thought 'finer' was a finer pitch of threads, allowing smaller changes....
08-09-2010, 08:23 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Cairns, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1,053
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Back from playing but not running engines. Compaired the needle valves of the FG36 and the FG20 and the 36 is finer than the 20 that is has a sharper taper and point, I think IF I mod the 20 needle it will be along the lines of the 36 but I am going to run it first.
Question, does any one know of a commercial engine test stand for these petrol engines, I can make one but being lazy the purchase option is more preferable assumng it doesn't cost the earth
Question, does any one know of a commercial engine test stand for these petrol engines, I can make one but being lazy the purchase option is more preferable assumng it doesn't cost the earth
08-09-2010, 08:48 PM
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
I use this Jumbo Delux Stand. I've had it some 10 years and it works great
http://bj-model-engines.com/American...%20Hobby1.html
I also have one of these but have not used it
http://www.pspmfg.com/RCEngineTestStand.html
http://bj-model-engines.com/American...%20Hobby1.html
I also have one of these but have not used it
http://www.pspmfg.com/RCEngineTestStand.html
08-09-2010, 09:50 PM
Senior Member
My Feedback: (14)
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
I'm still using my old Tatone all metal engine mount that I bought in the Seventies. If the engine has beam mounts, I can run it, though I have to use my own set of special hardware (nuts & bolts) for the really small engines. Nothing to rot from fuel soaking, nothing to paint to keep it pretty. It's as reliable as an anvil, and just about as clunky looking, but it does the job, decade after decade.
Ed Cregger
Here is a URL for this engine mount at MECOA: http://www.mecoa.com/tatone/teststands/teststands.htm
Ed Cregger
Here is a URL for this engine mount at MECOA: http://www.mecoa.com/tatone/teststands/teststands.htm
08-09-2010, 10:00 PM
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
I had a Pylon (Sullivan) brand stand for many years. It was made of maple.
About 10 years ago it blew completely apart with a 91 four stroke on it. It was supposed to be only up to 60 size engines for when I bought it in the early 60's, no one had anything bigger than a 45.
I remade all the parts in maple and it looks as original except it no longer says Pylon on it.
I just use it for 30's and 40's
About 10 years ago it blew completely apart with a 91 four stroke on it. It was supposed to be only up to 60 size engines for when I bought it in the early 60's, no one had anything bigger than a 45.
I remade all the parts in maple and it looks as original except it no longer says Pylon on it.
I just use it for 30's and 40's
08-10-2010, 07:49 AM
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Orlando,
FL
Posts: 585
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Here is a picture of the motor mount plates that I made from a piece of 1/8" aluminum. I also threaded the holes for the motor mount bolts. They weigh .2 oz but washers are not necessary. Total cost was $4.14 and an hour of my time. I think it would be great if a company would make these.
08-10-2010, 08:07 AM
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
The mounting bolt backing plates look good.
Due to the nature of wood mounts and the vibration/power of the engine, I consider these a necessity. Too bad you have to make them yourself.
Due to the nature of wood mounts and the vibration/power of the engine, I consider these a necessity. Too bad you have to make them yourself.
08-10-2010, 06:59 PM
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Hey all, I have a question about my FA-62A. Horizons website claims this engine does 9900rpm with an apc 13x6, I'm running a MAS 12x8 and only getting 7900-7970rpm, switched to a MAS 13x6 and got 8350-8400rpm. Valve lash is properly set, compression seems good and it'll idle at @1700rpm reliably and revs clean and smoothly, CoolPower 15%nitro fuel(new jug) and a hangar 9 4c super plug. About two years and 15-20 tanks of fuel(12oz) through it.
Do these RPM's seem low? Does a MAS prop have that much more drag over an APC to make that kind of a difference? Suggestions, ideas?
This engine has been pulling my GP 76.5" Cub around for the past 2 years and seemed to have plenty of power. I recently mounted a set of floats on it and that's when I found that it doesn't seem to be making the RPM's that it should be. I had marked the prop and rpm on the cowl and it looks like I wrote 12x8/9200 but it's hard to read now. That would have been right after break-in using Hobbsy's method(has worked great on all my stuff so far too
)
Thanks in advance guys!!
Do these RPM's seem low? Does a MAS prop have that much more drag over an APC to make that kind of a difference? Suggestions, ideas?
This engine has been pulling my GP 76.5" Cub around for the past 2 years and seemed to have plenty of power. I recently mounted a set of floats on it and that's when I found that it doesn't seem to be making the RPM's that it should be. I had marked the prop and rpm on the cowl and it looks like I wrote 12x8/9200 but it's hard to read now. That would have been right after break-in using Hobbsy's method(has worked great on all my stuff so far too
) Thanks in advance guys!!
08-10-2010, 08:17 PM
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
The MAS paint sticks are heavier than APC's and consequently less high RPM. The advantage is a lower idle because of the flywheel effect of the heavier prop. I've also heard that the APC's pitch is somewhat suspect but don't have any facts to back that up. I would also look at the supplied figures from the website with a bit of scepticism. You also get some unloading in the air, which will be good for some extra RPM.
Does it pull the float equipped Cub? If it does, than it is doing its job. A better measurement would be to see how much thrust the engine is developing.
Bob
Does it pull the float equipped Cub? If it does, than it is doing its job. A better measurement would be to see how much thrust the engine is developing.
Bob
08-10-2010, 09:02 PM
Senior Member
My Feedback: (14)
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Me thinks some folks expect more of the Saito .62 than it actually delivers. A 12x8 prop is a little stout for that displacement, as is a 13x6. No, not dangerously so, but those sizes of props are actually more suited to a .70 plus sized engine.
Ed Cregger
Ed Cregger
08-10-2010, 09:16 PM
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ORIGINAL: retransit
The MAS paint sticks are heavier than APC's and consequently less high RPM. The advantage is a lower idle because of the flywheel effect of the heavier prop. I've also heard that the APC's pitch is somewhat suspect but don't have any facts to back that up. I would also look at the supplied figures from the website with a bit of scepticism. You also get some unloading in the air, which will be good for some extra RPM.
Does it pull the float equipped Cub? If it does, than it is doing its job. A better measurement would be to see how much thrust the engine is developing.
Bob
The MAS paint sticks are heavier than APC's and consequently less high RPM. The advantage is a lower idle because of the flywheel effect of the heavier prop. I've also heard that the APC's pitch is somewhat suspect but don't have any facts to back that up. I would also look at the supplied figures from the website with a bit of scepticism. You also get some unloading in the air, which will be good for some extra RPM.
Does it pull the float equipped Cub? If it does, than it is doing its job. A better measurement would be to see how much thrust the engine is developing.
Bob
Ed,
my FS-70 swings a MAS 14x6* at 9200. I was actually a bit surprised that for all of the seeming size difference it only weighs 3.5oz more than the FA-62A just as they sit here.
(*edit-originally posted Mas 14x8, corrected to MAS 14x6)