William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

Barry:

Jim always said you were good at needling - whether needling him or an engine. Haw. That rpm says you must have it perfect.
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Gary:

With the crank only in the engine it should feel silky smooth. You should be able to hold the case with the crank horizontal, and as you roll the case the crank counter weight should stay at the bottom. there should be no more than a slight drag from the seals on the front bearing.

Probably all in my head, but the ceramics always gave me a feeling of a harder mounting, yet easier turning than even the best steel bearings.

Bill.

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

Soft mounts, if they are too soft, will set up low frequency, high excursion engine movements that can cause the engine and sometimes the airframe to shed parts. Find me one engine manufacturer that recommends using a soft mount. I don't think that you will. Fox used to warn against it, as did several other manufacturers.

Of course, all of this depends upon the type of soft mount being employed and its configuration. I refuse to use them for the simple reason that the really good ones are really expensive. Noise is not that critical at my flying site. When it does become that critical, I'll either find another flying site or switch to electrics altogether.

I realize that the big attraction to soft mounts for some folks is the fact that "real airplanes" use vibration isolators. But how many "real airplanes" are powered by a humongous single cylinder engine?

Ever hear a pattern ship groan when the snubber used to hold the front of the crankcase in alignment is in use? Argh! That is not an improvement.

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

Ed:

What do you mean no full scale planes are powered by a "humongous single cylinder engine?" First attached picture is the plane that our moderators Hobbsy and W8YE are planning to run at Reno later this year. I managed to get a shot with the cowlings off.

Haw.

As I said some time back, might have been in this thread or another, some "Soft" mounts don't feel at all soft. Second picture is my Diablo, it has a "Grommeted" soft mount, and when you grab the engine you can't feel any free movement at all. But it keeps the high frequency vibration away from the air frame. Works well.

Bill.

FFOURU

Nice looking Spit, is that an o49 with a spring starter?

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

Bill, you didn't recognize my valveless Saito 4900, Jim says he won't fly it because the hard mounted engine blurs his vision and gives him a headache.

Iflyglow

My Feedback: (79)

Do all saito's have sealed front bearings. I just tore down, cleaned, and reassembled my .91 I bought off ebay last week. I noticed it had a orange double sealed bearing in the front, and a sheilded rear bearing. The only reason I tore it down is that while NIB the manual says 1999 and the engine was a little dusty. I cleaned all the old dark and thickened oil out of it with brake cleaner and reassembled with ATF.

jlkonn

My Feedback: (1)

Here is a link to a Central Hobbies page that talks about soft mounts.
I am in no way connected to them or Merle Hyde.
http://www.centralhobbies.com/Engine...s/hydetxt.html
In it he talks about the difference in current draw that can be achieved.
In my previous RC life, I just got back in after 20 years, I was a hard charger.
In 1985 I was a judge at the Masters, the US team selection for the world pattern championships.
Chip Hyde was there and of course Merle.
Merle was almost fanatical about vibration mounts.
At that time his was little more than a couple plywood pucks, a section of bicycle tube and a couple radiator hose clamps. He would talk to and share with any and all what he knew about the concept and how he made his. Also you must remember this was just as 4 strokes were coming on the scene after the size limit for them had been raised from 10cc to 20cc. The really top flyers were still with 2 strokes as was Chip.
Fast forward to today and I can't believe the leap in performance of just about everything...from engines to radios. My Saito 1.00 runs circles around the Enya 1.20's I had including the "R". AND it will idle!
Anyway, the price I see that is paid is the "pounding" the plane now takes..."nothing is for nothing"!
So...I have a Hyde mount for my next project. The YS 1.10 is a dead fit for the Saito 1.00. I don't know about the 1.25. At around $60 I don't think it's too bad plus it comes pre-drilled.
I'm anxious to try it out!
JLK

BQuartucy

Bill,
What did you use for your "grommeted" soft mounts, and where did you get them?

FFOURU

I have a set of Gator Mounts for my Saito 1.20 that is going intop my Corsair. After reading about the Pro's & Con's (Didn't really find any Con's), I think I will use the Gator Mount.

On the subject of my 72 not wanting to Idle well, I checked the intake pipe, and it feels firm. It has been suggested that I don't have enough time on the engine to expect it to Idle well. So.. How much more break-in do I need to do? I will run it again today, and tweek the Ilde screw some more. Oddly enough, My 1.20 seemed to Idle well from the start.

wxman

Thank you guys for the help on the valve clearances. I am going to get on it this weekend. I just picked up a valve clearance feeler set from NAPA that goes 0.0015, 0.0020, 0.0025, etc. By the way, I have a Saito 125 flying the pants off my Mayhem 125.

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

Generally, a Saito will idle rather well by the 2nd tank. They idle better after a half dozen or so.

There could be something wrong with yours? Saito is not perfect. They have a mess up every now and then.

I had one with a smaller diameter spray bar. You could not get the idle leaned out even with the idle mixture screw all the way in.

Enjoy,

Jim

EMVIN

Does anyone have experience with the 220? I was wondering what prop size will work best.....

redcow

I just bought a Slimline side mount Pitts style muffler for my saito 100. It is mounted on my Funtana S 90. When I go to mount the muffler, it hits the bottom engine mount a little so I cant tighten up the muffler flush. Should I just take a dremmal and cut some of the engiine mount off? Any advice will help. Thanks

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

It depends on how much is to be removed?

A slight bevel or round off would be OK.

Enjoy,

Jim

XJet

Redcow, an SA100 is a bit small for the Funtana 90 isn't it? Lots of folks are using the 100 in the Funtana 40. Mind you, if you're not planning any wild aerobtaics or 3D stuff the 100 may suffice.

redcow

I have been abale to do everything with that Saito 100---It wont rocket ship out of a hover cause its not overpowered--Its just right.

FFOURU

Well, a little better run up today on the 72. Changed to a 13x6 Zinger, using Wildcat 15% nitro 18% oil fuel. Topped out at 9,700 with a couple of peaks up to 10,500. Got an old Royal Digital tach, not sure about it, but the new Hanger 9 Tach only lasted for 2 uses, and quit. Leaned the idle quite a bit, and she ran smooth at about 3,000, but would only idle a minuite or so below that before she spit fuel at me, coughed and died. Idle screw about 1 full turn in from flush. When I gave her throttle, she would smoke like crazy, but ran up very well. Is the cough and sput at 2,500 rpm because the ilde mixture is too lean?

loughbd

If it sputters and hesitates when given throttle it's too rich. Pinch the fuel line at idle. If it sppeds up it's too rich. If it dies it's too lean.

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

Cough and sputter with throttle up to full speed is usually too rich. If the idle is too lean, at throttle up, the engine will just quit.

Your high speed rpms look OK.

Make sure you tank average fuel level is centered about the needle valve.

That you have fresh fuel

That you or running a fourstroke plug like the OS F, Saito SS, Y-S four stroke, H9 Four stroke Super Plug.

Enjoy,

Jim

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

Dave:

I appreciate your attempt to C MY A by calling it a valveless Saito, but let's tell everyone who might not know about that engine. Roy Cox had such success with the Babe Bee 0.049 he decided to go into full size engines, and that one you have is the prototype "Brobdignagian Bee." It is 4900 cubic inches displacement, and yes, FFOURU, it does have a spring starter.

Dave has mentioned the biggest problem with it, and Jim is smart to refuse to fly the plane. The one time I was in it with the engine running I thought it was going to shake my teeth out. People with false teeth only have to worry about their eyes turning into foam.

Tongue firmly implanted in cheek.
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MOTORMAN37:

All Saito 4s engines have a sealed front bearing. These seals are the only closure for the front of the crank case. I personally would not use even a shielded rear bearing, the shields will restrict the oil flow to the cam and lifters.
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John:

Soft mounts. The Diablo I have, I really don't remember when I got it, but it's been off the market for at least ten years. The airframe is still sound, and in excellent condition. It has some dings and hangar rash, the gear has been torn off, but I blame its long life on the soft mount keeping the joints from being vibrated apart.
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BQuartucy:

The grommets are rubber "Top Hat" bushings, the mount is drilled to clear the "Hat" section of the bush, with one on each side of the mount, and flat washers to keep the screw head from pulling into the rubber. There is a metal tube inside, cut to a length that allows a slight compression of the rubbers when the screw is tightened.

If you look closely at the set up on the Diablo you'll see a stack of flat washers on the mounting screws, I switched them from front to back of the grommets for thrust line adjustment.

I'll see if I can bang out a line drawing showing the assembly.
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EMVIN:

Hobbsy is our current FA-220 expert.
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FFOURU:

I'll agree with Jim. If you're only one turn in from flush that's another indication you're still 'way rich. A quick and dirty check is to pinch the fuel hose - if the rpm goes up you're still on the rich side.
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New entries:

236 MOTORMAN37
237 EMVIN
238 redcow

Welcome all. When we are of a sufficient number we can attack the OS boys, make them see the error of their ways. Haw.

Bill.

FFOURU

I'm running fresh fuel, and it has the glow plug that came with the engine. I have some Hanger 9 spares that I bought form Horizon with the engine. I ran 2 tanks through today, and just kept leaning down until is seemed to run better at about 2,800 to 3,000. Run up to full throttle is smooth, and sounds good. It still doesn't want to Idle down below that and keep running. I am questioning the accuracy of my tach!!!! I'm not sure that it is reading right at the lower speeds. Carb is right at the middle height of the tank. Engine is inverted. Adjusted the valves this morning, they were just slightly tight. I guess that I will have to be satisfied with 3,000 for idle for now, if that is really what it is turning. I'm liking this engine more, the more I mess with it.

This is my second Saito engine, and the first (a 50, back in 1995) was used when I bought it. It ran great all the time. I never should have sold it and gone to the bigger engine. Had female problems back then, and that is why the airplanes went into storage. Almost forgot that I had them. Dug them out last January from my buddies basement. Now that my Cub is ready to fly, I will get back to work on my T/F Corsair, and get the Saito 1.20 mounted. Hope to fly that one this summer!

Thanks a million for your help. It really made a difference for me!

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

Twenty eight hundred is probably all you are going to get for a while. They don't seem to idle as low inverted as sideways or upright. As long as your plane does not roll at idle, it should be OK. As you get some time on the engine, you should be able to get it down to 2500.

Enjoy

Jim

olstoney

My Feedback: (19)

Hi Bill,
Sign me up too! Since following your advice on adding some castor to my YS 20/20 blend fuel the FA-100 has run great. My YS 110'S like it too, but that's another story .

Ernie Misner

Is it really that difficult to set the HS needle without a tach? On my 82, I can back it off a few clicks from peaked and it seems right. Go any further and it begins to bluber, miss, or "8 cycle". Am I missing something?

Thanks,

Ernie

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

olstoney:

Ok, you have it. Number 239 is yours. Don't be hesitant to comment.
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Ernie:

I've written on it before, the only thing the tach adds to tuning a four stroke is numbers. The problem is the engine's slow reaction to a change - you have to diddle and then wait. If you get impatient you will go too far before the engine responds. Waiting for the tach to stabilize gives the engine time to keep up with you, this makes tuning easier for many people.

Bill.