Welcome to Club SAITO !
03-18-2006, 10:37 AM
#2251
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RE: [Awaiting Approval]
I'm still working on the Monocoupe 90a. I've never hooked a wing with two servos on each wing. Could anyone suggest a web site where I can find a wiring diagram of how to hook it up correctly? I tried the JR web-site, but my 5 yr xp783 is discontinued. (I think I left my manual at the field and still need to go check.) Also I have a HiTecHFD-08RD receiver. I just bought the receiver, but it's not listed on HiTech's website either! The instruction with the HiTech are no help to me... Any advice would be greatly appreciated! (trying to finish this up today)
03-18-2006, 10:43 AM
#2252
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ORIGINAL: EMVIN
I do know that the 16X8 was turning at about 9500 and the 17x6 turns at 8700+/- RPM. The difference in pitch would be similar to changing gears in a car, which is pretty much what your saying. A lesser pich is like starting in first or second gear opposed to a deeper pitch. There is more acceleration. In 3D that's what is desired. The larger prop create's better air flow. Most 3D is performed at low end speed or full stall. That quick burst of acceleration is what its about....
I do know that the 16X8 was turning at about 9500 and the 17x6 turns at 8700+/- RPM. The difference in pitch would be similar to changing gears in a car, which is pretty much what your saying. A lesser pich is like starting in first or second gear opposed to a deeper pitch. There is more acceleration. In 3D that's what is desired. The larger prop create's better air flow. Most 3D is performed at low end speed or full stall. That quick burst of acceleration is what its about....
03-18-2006, 11:24 AM
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RE: [Awaiting Approval]
Harleyflyer:
Welcome. You are now number 241 in Club Saito.
Your FA-100 will swing the 16x4 with no problem, but your plane might not fly with it. Your airspeed, with the engine at maximum rpm, will be barely 30 mph. I'd go for a 15x6 prop.
The heli fuel will be fine if it has a castor oil blend, and I'd recommend 15% nitro.
---------------------------------------
davcos:
If you mean two servos on each aileron and a single radio channel, plug a wye connector into channel one of the radio, then two more wyes into the first. The two servos on each wing will plug into one of the wye connectors.
If you are using two channels for the ailerons usually channel one will have a wye to the left wing servos, and channel six will be wyed to the right wing. Use a transmitter mix to tie the two channels together. All assuming you're flying mode two.
The difficult part is matching the geometry of the linkage to keep the servos exactly in time, prevent them from fighting each other. Far simpler to split the ailerons and have one servo operate each section. Doing this you can also have the outer sections ion channel one, and the inners on channels six and seven. Then, using tx mix you can have all four sections work as ailerons, and, on command, the inner sections will function as flaps.
Bill.
Welcome. You are now number 241 in Club Saito.
Your FA-100 will swing the 16x4 with no problem, but your plane might not fly with it. Your airspeed, with the engine at maximum rpm, will be barely 30 mph. I'd go for a 15x6 prop.
The heli fuel will be fine if it has a castor oil blend, and I'd recommend 15% nitro.
---------------------------------------
davcos:
If you mean two servos on each aileron and a single radio channel, plug a wye connector into channel one of the radio, then two more wyes into the first. The two servos on each wing will plug into one of the wye connectors.
If you are using two channels for the ailerons usually channel one will have a wye to the left wing servos, and channel six will be wyed to the right wing. Use a transmitter mix to tie the two channels together. All assuming you're flying mode two.
The difficult part is matching the geometry of the linkage to keep the servos exactly in time, prevent them from fighting each other. Far simpler to split the ailerons and have one servo operate each section. Doing this you can also have the outer sections ion channel one, and the inners on channels six and seven. Then, using tx mix you can have all four sections work as ailerons, and, on command, the inner sections will function as flaps.
Bill.
03-18-2006, 11:33 AM
#2254
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RE: [Awaiting Approval]
Quoting Bill... "Far simpler to split the ailerons and have one servo operate each section. Doing this you can also have the outer sections ion channel one, and the inners on channels six and seven. Then, using tx mix you can have all four sections work as ailerons, and, on command, the inner sections will function as flaps."
This is what I had in mind Bill, The ailerons are split, so I think this is what I'll try to do.
Thanks for the help!
This is what I had in mind Bill, The ailerons are split, so I think this is what I'll try to do.
Thanks for the help!
03-18-2006, 12:29 PM
#2255
03-18-2006, 05:50 PM
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RE: [Awaiting Approval]
OK here is a question. I got a 120 that was sat up for a while. I got her back running and she runs great BUT I feel like it should have more power that it does. I have a 16x4W prop on her and It will bogg down till it runs up. Just slow to wind up. Is this normal? It does have good power. I am not saying great just good. I think the 100 has just about the same power if not more.. Other than that. It runs great idles forever and runs like a top..
LATER
LATER
03-18-2006, 06:45 PM
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RE: [Awaiting Approval]
Doesn't sound right to me... I've got a 120 with a Master Air Screw 16x6 that will pull my Great Plains Spacewalker with an 80" wingspan like crazy! I started the plane and the 120 out, with an APC 16x8 and no problems at all, just a little to fast for my novice hands... You came to the right place though, the guys in this forum are great! Have you tunned the Saito engines much? You know about the "touchy" low end setting, right?
03-18-2006, 06:47 PM
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RE: [Awaiting Approval]
Also, I forgot to say that our field is at an elevation of 5,800 feet. I"ve heard that can have an effect on Airplanes... I know the 12,000 passes have an effect on my Harley! I haven't flown anywher else, so I can't say personally.
03-18-2006, 07:05 PM
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RE: [Awaiting Approval]
re Post 2192:
I haven't actually tried any of this aileron stuff yet, but the gentlemen at my hobby store said to hook up one outside aileron to the normal location on the radio, hook the other outside to an auxiliary channel, then connect the flaps with a Y connector to a third channel. I guess that would be all right if I can figure out the transmitter.
I haven't actually tried any of this aileron stuff yet, but the gentlemen at my hobby store said to hook up one outside aileron to the normal location on the radio, hook the other outside to an auxiliary channel, then connect the flaps with a Y connector to a third channel. I guess that would be all right if I can figure out the transmitter.
03-18-2006, 07:58 PM
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RE: [Awaiting Approval]
powerlines:
You're first. Sounds like your LS adjustment is still off. If it spits and sputters while it's bogging down I'd think you're still a bit rich. The impression I get from your words though, is that it's lean. While it is running at idle pinch the fuel line - if it dies immediately you're lean. Give it about 1/8 turn out on the LS and try again. On the other hand if it speeds up go that same 1/8 turn in.
It is my opinion that a 4" pitch is useless on a Saito engine. Pitch speed at 10K rpm is less than 40 mph, and with the normal amount of slip you aren't going to fly much more than 25 mph. If your plane will fly well at 25 mph fine, stay with the 4" pitch. Too slow for me. Six inch pitch is, to me, much more practical.
-----------------------------------
Dav:
Your LHS just told you another way to connect the ailerons and flaps, it will work also.
The options, if the transmitter can be programmed for them, for one, two, three, and four channels all working wing surfaces are:
One channel - all servos on the same channel, ailerons only.
Two channels A) Outer surfaces on one channel, inner on the second. Ailerons on the outers, flaps on the inners B) Left wing on one channel, right on the other. All surfaces as ailerons, all surfaces can be drooped to act as full span flaps.
Three channels. A) outers on one channel, inners separate channels. Outer surfaces operate as ailerons only, inners can function as ailerons in normal flight, and as flaps when desired. B) Outer surfaces separate channels, inners on one. This allows you to program differential ailerons if needed, but the inner surfaces can operate only as flaps.
Four channels. This gives you all the programming options already listed, plus what is called "Crow." This is with the outer surfaces deflected upward and the inners down. A high drag condition allowing extremely steep descents at high throttle without over speeding the engine or the airframe.
Bill.
You're first. Sounds like your LS adjustment is still off. If it spits and sputters while it's bogging down I'd think you're still a bit rich. The impression I get from your words though, is that it's lean. While it is running at idle pinch the fuel line - if it dies immediately you're lean. Give it about 1/8 turn out on the LS and try again. On the other hand if it speeds up go that same 1/8 turn in.
It is my opinion that a 4" pitch is useless on a Saito engine. Pitch speed at 10K rpm is less than 40 mph, and with the normal amount of slip you aren't going to fly much more than 25 mph. If your plane will fly well at 25 mph fine, stay with the 4" pitch. Too slow for me. Six inch pitch is, to me, much more practical.
-----------------------------------
Dav:
Your LHS just told you another way to connect the ailerons and flaps, it will work also.
The options, if the transmitter can be programmed for them, for one, two, three, and four channels all working wing surfaces are:
One channel - all servos on the same channel, ailerons only.
Two channels A) Outer surfaces on one channel, inner on the second. Ailerons on the outers, flaps on the inners B) Left wing on one channel, right on the other. All surfaces as ailerons, all surfaces can be drooped to act as full span flaps.
Three channels. A) outers on one channel, inners separate channels. Outer surfaces operate as ailerons only, inners can function as ailerons in normal flight, and as flaps when desired. B) Outer surfaces separate channels, inners on one. This allows you to program differential ailerons if needed, but the inner surfaces can operate only as flaps.
Four channels. This gives you all the programming options already listed, plus what is called "Crow." This is with the outer surfaces deflected upward and the inners down. A high drag condition allowing extremely steep descents at high throttle without over speeding the engine or the airframe.
Bill.
03-18-2006, 08:36 PM
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RE: [Awaiting Approval]
Dav:
Forgot to mention that option three A) will allow reflexed ailerons, giving the high descent rate without the full advantage of "Crow." Option three B) will allow full crow, but not the full span ailerons.
Bill.
Forgot to mention that option three A) will allow reflexed ailerons, giving the high descent rate without the full advantage of "Crow." Option three B) will allow full crow, but not the full span ailerons.
Bill.
03-18-2006, 11:21 PM
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RE: [Awaiting Approval]
My E-mail notification thingy has given Club Saito a new name; awaiting approval. Lovely how it did that, I was getting tired of the same old thing anyway. It also conviently places the notifications on top in an alphabetical listing, so I get to it first.
03-19-2006, 01:28 AM
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RE: [Awaiting Approval]
Kurt:
There is no one "Best" prop for the engine.
If your plane is a large lightly loaded slow flier it might be a 12x4, or maybe even a 13x4. On the other hand, if it's a smaller plane expected to have a high air speed then a 10x8 might be right.
The "Nominal" prop, the mid range, is an 11x6.
If you can estimate the air speed, then you can select the pitch. Once yu have the pitch, pick the diameter for correct engine load.
Airspeed for the 4" is about 25-28 mph, six inch will take you around 40, the eight inch will put you a little over 50 mph.
Bill.
There is no one "Best" prop for the engine.
If your plane is a large lightly loaded slow flier it might be a 12x4, or maybe even a 13x4. On the other hand, if it's a smaller plane expected to have a high air speed then a 10x8 might be right.
The "Nominal" prop, the mid range, is an 11x6.
If you can estimate the air speed, then you can select the pitch. Once yu have the pitch, pick the diameter for correct engine load.
Airspeed for the 4" is about 25-28 mph, six inch will take you around 40, the eight inch will put you a little over 50 mph.
Bill.
03-19-2006, 02:31 AM
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RE: [Awaiting Approval]
Speaking of props -
I am basically a cheapskate, I hate to spend money. If I break the fuselage in two a little CA fixes it, a hole in a wing? That’s why I save Monocote scraps. Rip the gear off? Some plywood and epoxy. But ruin a prop? That takes money.
I started researching on prop durability, and reached the conclusion that no props on the market would survive a landing at a 45 degree down angle with the engine at full throttle.
This meant it was time for some more research, and development of a better propellor.
Tried aluminum, both cast and machined. The cast props broke, the machined billet blades would bend. Not satisfactory.
Tried steel. Same thing. When it hit the asphalt, the asphalt won.
I thought back to when I was preparing and servicing race car engines, and remembered “Mallory Metal.” MM is more dense than lead, extremely strong, and can be machined with carbide tools and ground to a great finish. This time, the 14x8 three bladed prop hit the asphalt, the asphalt looked like some one had been at it with a pneumatic hammer. The $30 Tru-Turn spinner was shattered, the mounting lugs were broken from the $85 crank case, and the shaft was bent like a pretzel, but the prop looked like new. Success. A damage proof propellor.
Still had a problem though. The 14x8 three blade prop made from MM weighed four pounds. Great idle at 1200 rpm, and while it took a while to spool up there was NO engine vibration. It was just so heavy the plane almost wouldn’t get off the ground.
I consulted with a young genius I know, named Jason Fox. You may have seen him in the comic strip Fox Trot, in real life he’s even smarter.
More research, a lot of book work and computer time checking the numbers, and we figured how to neutralize the gravitons in the metal. While the mass didn’t change, keeping the smooth running, the weight of the prop was reduced to zero. With a little more research we found out how to reverse the polarity of the gravitons, and pumped them all back into the prop. Now the prop weighed minus four pounds, and took care of the nose heavy condition the plane had always been plagued with.
So, having developed this super prop and fantastic metal, why don’t you see more application?
Well, it happened like this. My next 45 degree landing tore one engine completely off the airframe, with the engine weight of only 16 ounces the minus four pound prop took the engine in a vertical line straight up. Accelerating all the way. It hit Mach about 150 feet in the air and kept speeding up. An extremely loud sonic boom shook the entire panhandle of Florida. He last we saw of it was a red streak as it exceeded interplanetary velocity and burned up before leaving the atmosphere.
Since I was flying on a Navy facility the Navy was there suddenly, shortly followed by the FAA wanting to know who was exceeding 250 knots at such a low altitude. Soon after that NASA showed up, they wanted to know who was shooting such a powerful rocket without their permission, and to learn how we had done it. Finally, the ATF and Homeland Security came in the same car wanting to confiscate the gun we used, and throw us in jail as “Detainees” until we gave in to the torture and told them how to do it.
Jason and I were handcuffed and thrown in separate cars so we couldn’t dream up a story together, then interrogated separately for almost an hour. No one would believe we didn’t have a huge cannon, or a super rocket until one of the ATF types went over to the crash site and picked up the rest of the plane. As he did it, the other engine separated. Yep. Another sonic boom and red streak.
So now Jason and I are accompanied 24 hours a day by four knuckle draggers, not allowed to be in private with anyone, the government has taken all our research papers, tools, and materials. We aren’t even allowed to talk about “Deflated Uranium” to anyone. Or to talk about anything else either. That’s why this is written on toilet paper, I hope I can get it smuggled out. If you find it please call our lawyers, see if they can get us out of here!
Thanks in advance.
Bill.
I am basically a cheapskate, I hate to spend money. If I break the fuselage in two a little CA fixes it, a hole in a wing? That’s why I save Monocote scraps. Rip the gear off? Some plywood and epoxy. But ruin a prop? That takes money.
I started researching on prop durability, and reached the conclusion that no props on the market would survive a landing at a 45 degree down angle with the engine at full throttle.
This meant it was time for some more research, and development of a better propellor.
Tried aluminum, both cast and machined. The cast props broke, the machined billet blades would bend. Not satisfactory.
Tried steel. Same thing. When it hit the asphalt, the asphalt won.
I thought back to when I was preparing and servicing race car engines, and remembered “Mallory Metal.” MM is more dense than lead, extremely strong, and can be machined with carbide tools and ground to a great finish. This time, the 14x8 three bladed prop hit the asphalt, the asphalt looked like some one had been at it with a pneumatic hammer. The $30 Tru-Turn spinner was shattered, the mounting lugs were broken from the $85 crank case, and the shaft was bent like a pretzel, but the prop looked like new. Success. A damage proof propellor.
Still had a problem though. The 14x8 three blade prop made from MM weighed four pounds. Great idle at 1200 rpm, and while it took a while to spool up there was NO engine vibration. It was just so heavy the plane almost wouldn’t get off the ground.
I consulted with a young genius I know, named Jason Fox. You may have seen him in the comic strip Fox Trot, in real life he’s even smarter.
More research, a lot of book work and computer time checking the numbers, and we figured how to neutralize the gravitons in the metal. While the mass didn’t change, keeping the smooth running, the weight of the prop was reduced to zero. With a little more research we found out how to reverse the polarity of the gravitons, and pumped them all back into the prop. Now the prop weighed minus four pounds, and took care of the nose heavy condition the plane had always been plagued with.
So, having developed this super prop and fantastic metal, why don’t you see more application?
Well, it happened like this. My next 45 degree landing tore one engine completely off the airframe, with the engine weight of only 16 ounces the minus four pound prop took the engine in a vertical line straight up. Accelerating all the way. It hit Mach about 150 feet in the air and kept speeding up. An extremely loud sonic boom shook the entire panhandle of Florida. He last we saw of it was a red streak as it exceeded interplanetary velocity and burned up before leaving the atmosphere.
Since I was flying on a Navy facility the Navy was there suddenly, shortly followed by the FAA wanting to know who was exceeding 250 knots at such a low altitude. Soon after that NASA showed up, they wanted to know who was shooting such a powerful rocket without their permission, and to learn how we had done it. Finally, the ATF and Homeland Security came in the same car wanting to confiscate the gun we used, and throw us in jail as “Detainees” until we gave in to the torture and told them how to do it.
Jason and I were handcuffed and thrown in separate cars so we couldn’t dream up a story together, then interrogated separately for almost an hour. No one would believe we didn’t have a huge cannon, or a super rocket until one of the ATF types went over to the crash site and picked up the rest of the plane. As he did it, the other engine separated. Yep. Another sonic boom and red streak.
So now Jason and I are accompanied 24 hours a day by four knuckle draggers, not allowed to be in private with anyone, the government has taken all our research papers, tools, and materials. We aren’t even allowed to talk about “Deflated Uranium” to anyone. Or to talk about anything else either. That’s why this is written on toilet paper, I hope I can get it smuggled out. If you find it please call our lawyers, see if they can get us out of here!
Thanks in advance.
Bill.
03-19-2006, 02:36 AM
#2269
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RE: [Awaiting Approval]
Dave and Jim:
I know that last post belomgs in "Humor," but let it stay here for a day or two please. Then we can move it for more to enjoy(?).
Bill.
I know that last post belomgs in "Humor," but let it stay here for a day or two please. Then we can move it for more to enjoy(?).
Bill.
03-19-2006, 03:43 AM
#2271
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RE: [Awaiting Approval]
William,
You really ought to use nobendium for making your props -- it's much stiffer than the materials you suggest and easier to work than either impervium or unobtanium.
:-)
You really ought to use nobendium for making your props -- it's much stiffer than the materials you suggest and easier to work than either impervium or unobtanium.
:-)
[sm=thumbup.gif]